Hello, I’m new to the forum and it’s been really interesting and comforting to read about other people's situations and advice! My mom, 85, has been living with me, my husband and 2 teenagers for the last six months. We’ve been taking care of her while she has a total hip replacement and regains her mobility. Mom normally lives about 8 hours drive away close to my older sister who was unable to take on the care during this operation.
Mom’s memory is getting worse, diagnosed as mild cognitive dysfunction at the moment. I’ve been trying to talk with mom about what’s next for her. We can’t keep her with us for much longer as it’s starting to affect my marriage and my relationship with the kids. I’m also an artist and getting to my studio to work has been really difficult while mom has been here. I’ve asked her if she wants to return to her home and if she thinks she could manage. She says yes but then says ‘but it’s so lonely there’. She has not made any friends or joined any groups or has any interests outside her direct family since dad died 26 years ago. Her support network at her home consists of my auntie and uncle down the street (they’re in their 70s and will pop in but can't offer much more than that) and my sister who is 62 and has been really good often helping mom with shopping, doctor's appointments and socially but who is finding it tougher and tougher as mom's needs increase and is unemployed herself, has very little personal support (no significant other or family of her own) and in her own words “is relying on drink to cope.” When I try to push mom further on what she wants and whether she can cope, she just says "I can’t think about that at the moment. I’m in too much pain." Her pain seems a lot better since the operation, which was about a month ago. Ideally for my and my family’s sake I’d like to get her back home in August (as long as she keeps progressing well mobility wise) but I’m really worried that it will end in her being unable to cope or my sister trying to live with her to care for her ( last year my sister tried living at mom's house for about 6 weeks and it ended with my sister drunkenly raging on the phone to me about my mom and the next day my mom was sobbing on the phone to me saying that my sister was going to abandon her - my sister said mom was hungover at this point but mom's not meant to drink much with her medication) I’m worried about both of them. I have 3 brothers, all living in different places, all offering various different levels of short periods of help mom but they don’t seem to want to take on anything but the easier less messy stuff and they’ve all fallen out with my sister as she can be really difficult and say hurtful things especially when she’s been drinking.
Anyway, how do I help my mom with her future if she won’t or can’t talk about it?
Did your mom go to rehab after her hip replacement?
Is she getting PT at home?
Have you consulted her surgeon/doctor about the pain?
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-q-and-a-pain-near-artificial-hip-should-be-evaluated-without-delay/
I think the thing to do here is to come up with 2 or 3 choices that suit YOU and present them to mom. Either mom makes a choice or you will.
It doesn't sound like "going home" to loneliness and your alcoholic sister is a viable choice.
How about Assisted Living nearby? Senior apartment, nearby.
What are her finances like?
Do you have POA for Healthcare and finances? Get those done asap.
More information will get you better advice from us.
Your alcoholic sister was doing a lot for your mother prior to that, with both of them living 8 hours away from you. Apparently your mother was also drinking. ? Your mother shouldn't go back to her previous living situation.
And then you have 3 brothers who don't do much at all other than the "easier less messy stuff."
Who is POA? HCPOA? What is her financial situation?
Your mother would probably like to continue living with you. Don't let her lack of a decision determine the future. You do NOT have to allow her to continue living with her.
So tell us more, and then we will have some ideas for you.
BTW, welcome to the forum!
What immediately jumped out to me was Mom saying 'but it’s so lonely there’.
She may not be able to plan well anymore (mild cognitive decline will do that) but she has told you what she wants in a way... Not to be 'abandoned' by your sister & more company. Use that to start.
Somewhere with some staff & other people, activities, services that can be stepped up if mild cognitive issues worsen. So..
Q1 Assisted/Supported Living for Mom close to which one - you or your sister?
Of course factor in which location would suit you better, which would be best for Mom & sister's preferences too.
They may not align at first..
Maybe a few chats with your sister. Middle of day can be better to call some people as you may have found. (Avoiding hangover or tipsy times). Is she up to being nearest relative & visitor for Mom (in an AL) or need a complete break? That would not equate to you having take Mom on, but a real chat now may avoid having to move Mom an extra time.
Have a sit down with your mom, give solutions, set a deadline…
start visiting AL , so she can get the gest of what they are like.. when planning for her move, where she ultimately moves to , be sure, they will take Medicaid, some take Medicaid after , 1 or 2 or 3 years of self pay… And also has a memory care. Plan for the long haul .
if I could have convinced my mom to move here from another state, instead of her first AL , those are things I would want.
You make the decision where Mom is going. Hopefully she has the money for an Assisted Living. If she has a house it can be sold to pay for her care. You tell her since she can't decide you and Sis needed to make the decision for her. Your sorry, but she can't stay with you. And since she has said she would be lonely going back to her home, you thought an assisted living would be a good choice. She would have a room to herself with her things. She would eat in the dining room with other people. Have socialization and activities. This would be a nice solution for all.
Important that there now be a POA who can act. If Mom has only mild impairment diagnosis now she can understand and sign these form.
Important now to say that there are no GOOD ANSWERS to what is coming, but that it is COMING, and that there have to be the best answers you can find together.
I doubt seriously that three brothers, the living conditions, ability to help, willlingness is all unclear will end up anything but a whirling stew.
Be honest. No beating about the bushes. Time to truly honestly discuss what is coming next.
I always advise against taking a senior "temporarily into your home" as that leads to this sort of expectations ramble in which people try tomake it right, and try to be nice, but eventually always come down to the reality of having SOMEONE to make decisions of what will be done. That may, in this case, be the POA. You are going to need a single decision maker. When that person is in place then you make clear what you will do and what you will not.
Of course the sister who already broke once attempting this care is not a good option to attempt it again.
Start with family meeting without Mom. Then move to family meeting with Mom.
Start with POA. Then move to "options".
This won't happen in a day, but with honestly it will happen. Not without tears. Not with a perfect situation found. But it will happen.
When I look at my little old mom doing as much as she can around the kitchen for me to be helpful it breaks my heart to think of her in care with strangers. I feel so guilty about any decision that isn’t living with us but my realistic head knows that my husband and kids are not coping well with mom being around all the time and if I’m completely HONEST I hate not being able to get to the studio and do my work although mom doesn’t see the importance of art to me it’s my work and what makes me me.
We’re going to have a family meeting online tomorrow. All 3 brothers, sis and me. I realise from your messages that during this we all need to be completely honest with what we can and can’t offer. My sis is focused on her and mom moving in together - mom selling her house and buying a place for both of them nearer to conveniences - part of me feels like at least mom would be with family which on the surface is what mom would prefer but with sis drinking to cope my realistic head thinks that would be big mistake. My sis gets so like my alcoholic dad when drinking that it’d be like putting mom back into that situation again just like when I was a kid which I feel is just wrong no matter how much my sister blames me for ‘condemning mom to an awful life” in AL or for saying that sis hasn’t been looking after mom ‘all this time’ based on ‘one slip when she wasn’t coping’. It wasn’t just one time but it has been just once when sis was living in moms home and when mom can no longer get away from it by walking out. Mom is now much more vulnerable and can’t get away from a situation if she needs to. I think that the shopping, social interaction, doctors appointments, hospital visits that my sis has done was good not perfect but who is perfect and good enough is all mom needed. Mom has also been helping my sis out financially for years so they’ve been dependent on each other. It seems so complicated!
Maybe AL near me would be the best idea, I’d be ok with that so I know moms safe when I’m not there and I can visit regularly. I am concerned with mom agreeing to this as I think she’ll want to go home as soon as AL is mentioned also I’m pretty sure we’ll be here until the kids graduate from school - 3-4 years - but after that my husbands work might mean we have to move (we’ve had to move a lot with his job in the past including overseas) and I’m worried that then having to move mom again might mean this isn’t the best choice now - I’m trying to think about how the future might go. Oh it’s all so difficult and as you say nothing seems like the ‘right’ one.
At the minute my sis and oldest brother have joint POA. Depending on where mom ends up that might have to change.
I feel like this is rambling but it is helping to get my thoughts straightened out.
Sister’s attempt to keep your mother ended up with both of them drinking a lot too much – sister raving drunkenly on the phone, mother drinking too much to be OK with her medication, sobbing that sister was going to abandon her. But the extra complication in them living together is that “Mom has also been helping my sis out financially for years, so they’ve been dependent on each other”.
And behind it all, is that Mom was married to an alcoholic, and can’t have good memories of that! Nor can you, your sister, and your three brothers.
Question: how much do your three brothers know about all this? It’s all the sort of things that get swept under the family carpet for shame reasons. Brothers know that sister has a nasty tongue, and that’s why they stay away. However if it’s a case of an AL near somewhere permanent, they might step up. They and possibly your SILs may be willing to do weekly visits and be a more stable base to live. Perhaps even with grandchildren? Is it possible for sister’s financial needs to be met, without her wanting to hang on to mother?
All that I can suggest is the painful process of putting it all on the table for all of you. Siblings first, then mother if that suggests any good options. Covering up this mess is never going to work out, except by death. Perhaps even this email, with tweaks, might be a place to start. It comes from a stranger, they can say ‘what’s wrong with that’.
Mom would be in a more active environment and would be able to get help when she needed it or wanted it. IF she needs Memory Care in the future she would not have to move.
Next time she goes to the doctor or has an appointment for PT she should be asked to fill out a POLST (might be called by another name in other locations) Essentially it is a document that details her wishes as to what she wants family members to authorize medical personnel to do if she can not speak for herself in an emergency. (EVERYONE should have one filled out). Tell her that it is part of her medical record. (I was asked to complete a shortened version when I went in for my physical this year)
Doing this should get "The Talk" started.
If she still refuses to talk about it there is not much you can do.
You can start making plans and if she sees what you have written down she may say.."Well that's not what I want" then you have an in to delve deeper as to what she would want.
My Husband REFUSED to discuss things even before his diagnosis of dementia. I would joke and say when I die just cremate me and scatter my ashes in the garden, or I would say put me in a bag on garbage day.. I learned from his sister that he had always said he wanted to be buried next to his mom. I was able to do that!
By the way.....
As long as you are trying to get your mom to talk about her future do you and your husband have things lined up if something should happen to either one of you? Opening this discussion with each other, with your kids might make it easier for your mom.
She loves people and was horribly lonely at home even with in-home care which was exhorbitantly expensive, hence the move to AL. We tried one facility for a few months and weren't happy with their care. Then we found her current one which has been such a blessing. The staff there are overworked and underpaid but they LOVE helping the residents. They are so caring and kind to Mom, probably in part mirroring Mom's caring and kind nature. Mom can't remember names but she can tell when people care.
Just expect the transition to be very challenging for Mom. She will be confused and insecure for months but after some time (expect 3-6 months based on our experience) she will adapt. Such a move would be easier on her sooner rather than later, especially as her dementia progresses.
You have been very giving of your time and resources by taking care of her all these months. It is difficult to make such decisions but you are only one person and shouldn't take on more than you can handle. Your siblings seem to be successfully enforcing their boundaries. Don't feel guilty enforcing yours. Your husband and children need you, and for them there is no substitute.
May God bless you during this transition and decision making process.
Let's start with saying that your sister is an alcoholic and is useless to help with mom's caregiving needs or decisions that have to be made for her.
Your mother refuses to discuss any long-term plans because her long-term plan is to live at your house with your family. By refusing any discussion on that not happening means the situation will stay as it is.
My mother pulls the same thing. The 'I can't think about that right now' and 'I'm in too much pain' because she will not discuss the reality that is going to be happening with her situation. I just told her straight. I'm back together with my ex-husband and we are buying a place. She will not be moving with us. This has caused her to double-down on her verbal abuse, passive/aggressive behavior towards me, and her "performances" to get attention. I have told my former (soon to be current) husband that I want it in writing that we will not have elderly family members (on either my side or his) who need caregiving living with us. He has seen the hell on earth my life has been these last few years living with and caregiving for my mother, and he agrees.
So if my mother will allow no arrangements for her care and needs to be met after I move out, then I let the chips fall where they may. I'm walking away. Let my sibling take the reigns of caregiving that have been around my neck like a noose for years.
You're in a bit more of a pickle than I am because your mother is with you. Offer her a plan. Find a senior community near you and tell her that you will help her sell her house and move her into a senior apartment. Also, that you will hire some companion care to take her out and help her run errands and keep her place up.
Let this be what you offer. Don't let her back out of the conversation because she starts working herself up into hysterics and semantics. Don't back out of the 'talk' because she turns on the tears and the poor, lonely, pathetic senior act.
I don't mean to come off as harsh, but I've been an in-home caregiver for almost 25 years. I've seen all the acts, semantics, tactics, and performances a senior will give to get their way or keep things as they are. Don't back down. Include your husband in the discussion too.
If your mother refuses what you offer, then name a date and by that date pack her up and being her back to her house. Then hope for the best because it will be out of your hands.
start taking tours of AL , be sure they have a step up to memory care and will eventually take Medicaid.
as others have said she knows she is lonely , she knows she should not be alone…hopefully you can do this with her cooperation,.. my mom was not cooperative, my moms family blames me for my mom’s unhappiness…
Your mom's unhappiness is not your fault. You are not responsible for making her or anyone else happy.
Please tell her family that they can go pound sand.
You have already taken Mom into your home, which complicates the situation badly. It would have been better to care for Mom in her own environment so that it could be assessed, so that you could have given your departure date.
Did your Mom have rehab because she would have benefited a great deal from a full month?
What does your Mom's doc say about the pain level after surgery?
Are you the POA?
If not, that is step one, as it will soon be too late to do that.
Now is not the time to be soft, but rather the time to embrace the situation. The conversation starts here, you and hubby and anyone else involved.
It goes something like this.
"Mom, you have (here insert the hip surgery and the cognitive diagnosis.). We understand you wish not to speak about this. But here we all are and this is the situation and we HAVE TO SPEAK about it. We need to assess all your papers now and make certain everything's in order and that we know where things are. Then we have to assure you have a POA (me) to act for you when/if you cannot act for yourself. Then we need to find a safe place for you to live the remainder of your years, nearby to us so we can visit. We may need to discuss (list things such as assets, selling a home, etc.) for your living expenses. Staying here is not an option and you will no longer be safe alone miles from me".
Now if that works and discussion is still prohibited you are left with guardianship considerations. That would mean you need good diagnostic workups to prove Mom cannot make her own decisions anymore and you are the one to help her make them.
If all of that doesn't work you are left with transporting Mom home, telling her she or Auntie should call 911 for problems, and addressing ALL OF THE ABOVE with a social worker when inevitably she is hospitalized.
There honestly aren't a lot of other choices. However, because you already brought Mom into your home she has be led to believe she has FOUND the other choice. Which is living with you.
I am afraid you are going to have to be quite honest, quite tough in disabusing her of that notion, since--as you describe it to us--for you that isn't an option.
I wish you the best.
Not all of this will be handled in one day. But one thing at a time, it will be handled.
Going back to her house, realistically, is very short term option. The older people who stop in are already limited in helping her. The sister who is close by has drinking problem. Mom really needs to be close to people who are going to visit with her regularly (whether in a family home or a facility). She still has enough of a good mind to know she wants to be with family - family should take advantage of the time. Way too many posts, right here on this site, where families have already lost their parent to vanishing memory.
Any way to sell mom's house and use the money to pay for care in your home? Or a very nearby assisted living. Or maybe even look for someone in the area who do room/board for elderly in their home. I would suggest figuring out how much money she has access to plus money she could make from sale of house - maybe that would give you some financial insight as to in-home care, facility care, community care. - Please try to keep her close with regular visits. Being lonely, in my opinion, is too sad for the last years in someone's life.
The mother wants to live permanently at her daughter's house. She will never recover from her hip surgery because being recovered means she has to go.
The daughter needs to make the plans for her now.
It's somewhat overdue but the first step is to set a deadline for her returning home. Like, four and a half months ago; only since that's long gone it should be - say - three weeks from now.
This allows time for:
- setting up local support ready for her return home, ideally including someone to visit the home and make sure all the utilities are in working order and that there's milk and bread in the fridge
- sourcing ongoing in-home support if there are identified needs (identified by mother, that is), such as with shopping, domestic chores, laundry, medications ordering and delivery, transport to appointments, etc. etc. etc.
- laundering and packing her clothes so that she gets off to a good start
- arranging transport, + time off work/childcare if either OP or her DH is thinking of taking mother home
and
- mother to say what alternative she'd prefer.
She doesn't want to talk about it? It sounds more as if she doesn't want to hear that she can't stay with you forever, which would be a very good reason for closing down the discussion. The pain is probably real. Pain always gets worse with mental stress.
So what you need to communicate to her is that it is time for her to move on. Whatever is best for her next she can decide, only she can't decide that she's moving in permanently to somebody else's house (i.e. yours).
There's nothing hard or cruel about this. She doesn't want and you can't allow her to become entirely dependent on you, as though by default. Stop the rot now.
First and foremost, alcoholic sister should NOT be POA of your mother's medical or financial situation. While she's living with you, get her to a qualified elder law attorney and get all her documents and financial affairs in order. This is a must.
All the advice here is spot on but no one mentioned the effects of anesthesia on an 85-year old's brain. My 90-year old MIL had surgery for a broken ankle and the effects of anesthesia had a serious effect on her "mild cognitive impairment ". Let's just say it wasn't "mild" anymore. It really ramped it up. Plus cognitive impairment doesn't stay the same or get better. It will get worse.
I would strongly advise not to sell your Mom's house and buy another for her and alcoholic sister to live together. That would be a disaster. Mom needs to be somewhere safe for her impending increasing needs (and they WILL increase). Your sister can't take care if herself, much less an elderly person. Period.
If needed,have this "family meeting" without the sister and you all decide on Mom's future care and be on the same page BEFORE letting sister know in a 2nd family meeting call -- because you KNOW she will buck you at every decision.
At this point your Mom is taking the position of avoidance because she is comfortable where she is! Of course, she's going to come up with every excuse in the book, but you need to stay strong. She is not rationally thinking right now and that, too, will get worse over time. Please come back and keep us posted.
A Place for Mom will assist you for free as will the AgingCare.com on this website.