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I have a 77 year old friend I'll call Amy. She is estranged from most of her family and has a fraught relationship with her adult daughter, someone I've known since she was a toddler



Amy is very slowly working on E Of L documents, nothing is in place yet. She is a very as mart person with loads of friends and a supportive community, but:



1. She has a doctor who is always booked 10 months in advance.



2. She keeps getting locked out of the patient portal.
3. When she goes to Urgent Care, for whatever reason, things don't go well. It took 3 visits for someone to say "77 year old with a terrible cough, let's do a chest X-ray". She had pneumonia.



4.she has been weak and unable to get up and out for 18 days now. On antibiotics for the last 3 days



Give me your wisdom. What would you guys do?

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Get her to the ER stat.
And...
Get her a new doctor.
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Lea, I TRIED to get her to the ER last week...

Yes, new doc.

Thanks so much for confirming.
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Would it help to call an ambulance? Here, if you do that, the patient is seen in the ER immediately.
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Time for a new Primary Doctor. Once I gave up on VA Medical and got a CIVILIAN PCP, everything changed in one year.
A 77 year old with pneumonia should have been admitted to the hospital.

Definitely time for a new Primary, appointments made and records sent. She only needs 4 key documents for EOL. They are clearly made on Suze Orman's website.
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My first step, if I knew the daughter, would be to call her about this; you know them BOTH better than us. I would not mention ANY of the other health care issues; only this one. I would ask her if she knows Mom is down ill (don't share dx in case she hasn't) and would she want to visit, or know any close friend who might be able to do so.

My second step, if daughter says "Honestly Barb, this is on Mom. She has the same 911 number I do. If she feels she should go into emergency room then she should call EMS." Then I would call this friend and suggest she call EMS and go to the ER. Or let you check on how she feels daily. Ask her if she is eating and has ordered herself in some food.

I worry if she has no other friends closer than you are to tell she needs help, that at 77 she may be in a situations she cannot stay in? You know her better than us.

I would be very frightened, to tell the truth, to "step in here".
Today getting groceries in is as simple as going online, and if she needs more, I would not step into that Barb. I would suggest she calls EMS.
You honestly have enough on your plate.

I think I trust you. If you are comfortable intervening this one time, then do it. But if you believe you are likely setting yourself up for future trouble I think you know that as well, and I wouldn't do that.
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Obviously new doctor.
But if she is on antibiotics for 3 days only that means for 15 days she was in denial or neglecting her health.
She needs to take some responsibility, assuming she was unable to get up on day one or two, calling 911 would be prudent.
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Most doctors’ offices today are booked up 10 months ahead or even longer. I have this problem also. It’s even worse when a specialist is involved. I guess there’s a shortage of doctors. If the appointment time is months ahead, your friend should call her doctor’s office every now and then to check to see if they have any cancellations so she can come in sooner.

Your friend is getting locked out of the patient portal because she is doing something wrong. She needs to call the front desk at her doctor’s office and let them help her get into the portal.

Instead of your friend going to urgent care and not getting the proper diagnosis, she should go to the ER next time she needs urgent care.
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Yes, she is tech phobic. My DH usually gets her out of these problems, but he is sidelined right now doe to his own health issues.

I have had a LOT of experience recently with getting emergency appointments with docs. Maybe it's because my mom was a medical secretary; I called NYU and they told me there was a 5 month wait to see a urologist. I called back, got the screener/secretary and told her that my DH, with a HX of kidney stones was peeing blood. He was seen the next day.

Thanks for the realty check. I told her to go to the ER last week. She is worried she'd have to wait. OY!!
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AlvaDeer Apr 17, 2024
Barb, if she goes in by ambulance, no waiting.
If she goes in herself, yes, a lot of waiting.
Ambulances served first always, and esp if she says the word "chest pain".
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If she goes by ambulance she won't have to wait in the ER. Now is the cost worth not waiting? That's up to her to decide. Is she sick enough to justify taking an ambulance? I think she might be since she has not been able to get up and out for a little over 2 weeks. She's now on antibiotics for 3 days - is she getting better, staying the same or worse? If she feels she is getting worse then call 911 to request an ambulance.
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Barb,

Hoping things will improve soon for your friend. I think that you took a step in the right direction by switching doctors. It’s so important to be comfortable with a doctor’s care.
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I see your problem is she won't go to the ER. My Mom was sensitive to Penicillin. Antibiotic had Penicillin in it. She did a 180. Not a nurse but I would think after 3 days she would have some improvement. She may need it by IV. You need to tell her at her age Pneumonia can kill. If she starts talking weird its the Pneumonia. I agree, she needs call an ambulance.
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AlvaDeer Apr 17, 2024
If she won't go to the ER then I am thinking she doesn't need help. Not that much. I worry for Barb, who is so good hearted, getting tangled in this with so much she has on her plate already.
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Barb, I am so curious about what decisions you have come to in regards to your friend.
It really is quite the dilemma. I just don't want it being YOUR dilemma, especially if this is not a close friend.
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A bit of an update. Friend finished her antibiotics a week ago, still weak, wobbly, no stamina. Has a sort of pain/pressure in her "stomach" but when queried, says under her ribs in the center. Like the chest.

By contrast, another friend, several years older who just did two rounds of antibiotics for pneumonia and is up and coming to exercise class, it going for a chest CT to make sure her pneumonia has cleared.

When asked if she thinks she should do some follow up she says "oh, I don't think I need more antibiotics".

There are some things you can't fix.
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NeedHelpWithMom Apr 25, 2024
Well, God bless you for trying to help your friend. You certainly tried. That’s all that you can do.
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If your friend isn't really accepting any advice (from a retired RN!) and doesn't see the benefit in having an advocate, then there really isn't much that can be done. If she has all her faculties, you can't want it more than she does. The most you can do is call her every day to see how she's doing and then based upon that conversation, tell her what you'd be doing if it were you. Maybe you're already doing this... bless you for trying to help her.
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Yes, Geaton, checking in every day.

Interesting note, I saw one of her favorite pianists at Carnegie Hall this week and she told me about how this woman's career had been sidelined for a couple of years due to illness. I googled her and found at that she'd had complications from pneumonia (!).

Friend replied "yikes".

Maybe it'll be the wakeup call she needs.
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AlvaDeer Apr 26, 2024
YOU Barb, are a blessing to all you come across. How lucky she is. I can just see the conversation.
People may not "mind" you and may not "do as you say" and as an RN I sure know they often won't, but your caring, your being there, your making the best attempt at guidance--what a gift. And then there's just this......chatting together. So..................

More of a gift is this very conversation. Chatting, you know. We are so alone so often. What a treasure is someone who will give us moments of their precious time. Just talk with us and make it seem that we matter just a bit to someone.
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It such a shame that people are so stubborn and won't do what is best for themselves. My husband dreads having to go a NH. I have promised him nothing. He is 5ft 10 and 200# to my 5ft ? (I tell no one my weight). There is no way I will be able to lift him. I do pray that He goes before me. Only because he is a shy man who is almost deaf. He also had a traumatic experience when about 5 in the hospital. Back then parents weren't allowed to stay overnight. And with 2 other brothers all close in age, Mom could not really stay all day. Dad worked. I have told him I will do the best I can. But I will not promise. Because like my Mom said...when they are old, you are too. TG our daughter is a nurse.
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I usually walk with my friend. Today, we sat in the park. She told me how she hung up on a mutual friend who was trying to tell her about someone who had pneumonia which morphed into something more serious (mutual friend is a geneticist; she's just gotten out of the cardiac ICU at NYU).

We are all trying help this woman see that the fact that she has two of these total fatigue episodes in 6 months might be indicative of something more systemic (like leukemia). But she is simply not listening/taking it in. Very sad

Thank you all for listening!
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sp196902 Apr 28, 2024
All she has to do is request a blood test. And yes many times leukemia presents as the flu or pneumonia. Hopefully it's not leukemia.
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All you can do is wait till she has an episode where she becomes unconscious and then call 911. Just don't enmeshed yourself too much. She has a daughter, even if estranged, thatvcan make decisions for her.
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JoAnn, her daughter doesn't have POA. Friend is working herself around to making our NP friend Health POA.

Today at synagogue, I talked with a couple (retired doc and retired nurse) and THEY are very worried about her. She will see her GI doc on Wednesday and we will make a plan from there.
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sp196902 Apr 29, 2024
Sorry your friend sounds like she is in the needy stage where she is going to try and suck the life out of everyone who cares about her.
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You’re a good friend, Barb.

I don’t have any advice for you, but just want to send a note of appreciation.

Everyone should have a friend like you! 😀
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