Elder parents and my heartbreak. Do I call APS?

I would contact an elder care attorney ASAP. Many offer free consultation. It sounds that guardianship maybe necessary. It won't happen over night, but you can not keep letting your mom abuse your dad, and she needs to have the car taken away from her. Sometimes, police involvement can get the car towed away. Removing the car from her would be a safety precaution as she has no license to drive and could injure others, and for that matter being hearing deficient, she may not hear sirens and cause accidents and death.
These are tough love decisions, but, they need to be addressed.
Best luck, as I can relate to stubbornness and the agitation of it.

On 1.22 the OP stated she was choosing to do nothing about her parents situation by calling the VA or APS, and would "respect their wishes"!
Why come here for suggestions and advice and decide to do nothing??? Good luck and Godspeed to the parents.

Daddy’sfavorite, what good would it do to call the DMV? In all the reading you did, you did overlook where the OP is thousands of miles away? Sure he can call the DMV but what do you think will
happen? The DMV can suspend your license but they can’t physically force you to stop driving. Having a license revoked is just the beginning and for the OP it accomplishes nothing unless his mother voluntarily stops driving (And she probably won’t!). There is NO ONE there to take the keys away and disable the car! NO ONE to stop her from driving. So his mother can keep driving and driving until she’s either pulled over for a traffic violation or she wrecks the car. And calling the cops is going to be ineffective as well unless you call when you the person is currently behind the wheel. Im
not advocating against calling the DMV, I am just saying that a revoked license doesn’t stop people from driving and there’s a reason people suggested other things. The OP isn’t boots on the ground.

I read through most of the posts and didn't see anyone calling the DMV and reporting about your mother driving. In Arkansas anyone can call, anonymously if they want, to report someone as maybe being an unsafe driver. We did that when mom insisted on taking Daddy for rides once a week and he almost died of heat stroke because he couldn't get in the van and he couldn't get back to the house either. She had driven off of the edge of their cement driveway or he could have gotten in the car probably, but that's beside the point. She could not accept that Daddy was nearing the end of his life (was admitted to hospice shortly after that) and in the end we ended up moving Daddy in with us without them knowing until the ambulance showed up. Mom was livid and threw his stuff on the porch (they had been married 65 years) and was going to move to TN with my brother without even saying bye to Daddy. My sister had reported Mom to APS but APS said as long as there is family who can step in, all they could do is try to strong arm Mom into hiring someone, but since they weren't incompetent, APS couldn't step in.

Anyway, back to the original part of the story - when we went over to move the van, her keys disappeared and my set of keys were lost (my husband put them somewhere so I wouldn't have to lie when I said I didn't know where they were). When she got the letter saying she would have to take her driver's test to keep her license she decided to give it up, but the day after she went to get her identification card she said she was tricked into it. There was not a win-win solution.

Mom and Dad wanted to be at home until the end, and in the end Daddy was at home (with us). Mom is still with us and knows she is loved and will not be put in a nursing home (her worst nightmare). We, however, are able to do this but not everyone is able or willing, and it's not anyone else's business if they don't agree.

It doesn't sound like you have much choice in your parents' situation even if you were willing and able (financially, emotionally and physically) since they don't seem to want your help. My heart goes out to you. I imagine you are going through the 5 stages of grief (denial probably ended a long time ago, anger that your parents' won't do what is "best" for them, bargaining with your parents to take care of themselves, and maybe now depression, and eventually acceptance that you can't change anything). I hope you come to acceptance without guilt.

Call an elder care lawyer.

The OP hasn’t been back since she said she wasn’t going to do anything. Her mind is made up.

96 and 98? Seems to me they are doing remarkably well on there own.

Cartermac, if you truly want to correct this situation, you need to go to Houston and deal with this in person, full time, and remain there until the situation is stabilized. This will take some weeks, maybe months. Do it now. Do not call APS. Don't bother with the car or driver's license issue right now either. Focus on home and health safety, nutrition, exercise...the home health guy checking BP and walking Dad 1x/wk doesn't come close. Of course you are under no obligation, and it may not maximize your personal enjoyment, however, these are your parents and it would be appropriate for you to assist them in setting up a better and safer care and living situation; especially when it is clear they cannot do it themselves. If you are successful, and I think it IS possible, you will feel much better. If you are unsuccessful, you will also feel somewhat better having tried. If you don't try, or consider a phone call to APS sufficient, well, I will hold my tongue on that. 96 and 98!...I cannot help but marvel.

Rovana, who is going to take mom off the road?? She isn’t even driving legally. Call the cops. What are they going to do? Throw a 96 year old woman in jail because she is driving illegally. You would be surprised how many people out there who are driving illegally. They still manage to drive.

Please be aware that if you 'do nothing,' it is likely based on feeling overwhelm.
And, that you know your mother is driving without a license, doesn't hear (well), and has other health issues, that you are, in part, responsible for her potentially injuring or killing herself or others when driving.

IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to her and the community and anyone else driving or any pesterdrian in her path to report this situation to an agency. Then, if you want to do nothing, you will have at least done something to alert authorities to the situation.

FYI: It is very easy to take a part out of the engine so the car will not start. If you do not live in the area, you will need to enlist the help of a friend / neighbor, etc. This is no joke. How would you feel if she killed someone? a child?
This is serious.

Immediately go to adult protective services who will come in and investigate and most likely arrange for placement. This cannot continue. And perhaps consult an eldercare attorney how to get a POA, etc. Also, contact the doctor, the local Office on Aging, and perhaps call for advice from the state senator or representative. They are all able to help.

To possibly stop your mom from driving would require somebody to be there helping them to either hide the car keys or fix the car so it won't leave the driveway. As for me, I was able to help my parents for 3 to 4 months at a time (I was out-of-state too, with a husband and church-work at home). So to keep mom from driving, I (at first) tried hiding the car keys, but my brother who used the car to run errands put them in the correct spot, but they were sticking up and she found them and used her "picker-upper" to reach them again. So I then starting putting the Emergency Brake on so the car would not back-out of the driveway. Mom said, There's something wrong with the car; it does not go go in Reverse. LoL I said, I'll get it checked out when I get a chance. (Of course, I was always "Too busy.") Another thing I did (just in case) was to park the car on the driveway so the driver's side door opened onto the grass. Mom knew she was not steady on the grass to get in and would not try for fear of falling again. Even after her doctor took away her Driver's License, mom would start out the door to try, then get discouraged and come back in the house. Mom had dementia and in her mind, she was a lot younger. As her dementia got worse, her age got younger in her mind. I noticed she started mentally thinking she was in her 60's, then later was her 40's, then later was her 20's & even cut out news articles so we go dancing at some Country-music club! Toward the end of her life (she passed at 93), she struggled to remember us kids. She was like a child at the end. Fortunately, she was like a nice child. I was blessed that way. But, folk are right. Your mom really does needs to stop driving. If you have to work, you might consider taking a leave of absence from your job and pretend your company is temporarily shutting down due to COVID and ask your parents if you can stay with them for a couple months. This would give you a chance to clean the place, cook some meals for them, and spend some time with them to build trust & rapport while working some solutions. Hopefully that would give you a chance to talk to that in-home Physical Therapist who is walking your dad around. Ask him to report to his Agency's nurse what you both are seeing and do a report to APS or other Elder emergency agency through that medical Agency that your dad's doctor has ordered. They need intervention and using the medical system to do that will keep you from being the bad guy. Just some suggestions. You really do need to get the ball rolling as, at this point in their lives, your parents will start to get weaker and more disabled quickly. I'm amazed with a diagnosis of Alzheimer's, that your dad's doctor has not ordered a Memory Care Unit for him. I'm guessing your mom is in denial or is afraid of what will happen to HER if he is removed from the home, so it's probably your mom covering up the real medical status of your dad. They really do need intervention.

Cartermac, what do you see as the downside of alerting APS to your parents' situation?

Don't sulk, and don't confuse not interfering with doing absolutely sweet FA.

If you really want to respect your mother's wishes, you will support them. And if you really want to support them, you can alert those agencies and services which are able to deliver the help your parents need to remain living at home.

Communicating and sharing information with their local social care authorities will not undermine your mother in any way. An observation is not a criticism. A question is not an accusation. And an assessment is not a test of competence.

The reason she has not wished to permit involvement - on your part or anyone else's - is that she has not trusted anyone not to meddle. But if her and especially your father's needs are now neglected, they will be meddled with in spades.

Cartermac; believe me, I understand the heartbreaking situation you are in. You are in the unenviable position of "waiting for the event" that will send one of your parents to the hospital.

When that happens, you need to get in touch with Discharge Planning IMMEDIATELY and explain the deplorable conditions that your parents live in and their absolute inability to manage. And the fact that no, YOU will not be taking on their care.

You are right; it's very sad. They could have a lovely safe and clean space in a retirement village that THEY choose. Instead, the state is going to take over. Very sad.

Cartermac, I hear what you are saying. I understand what you are going through. The frustration. The anger. All of it. My mother was 96 and a severe hoarder and a severe gambling addict. She lived in her 2 story 2,000 square foot house all by herself.

A year before she died, she couldn’t go up the stairs anymore so she slept downstairs, in a folding chair, in the BATHROOM!! Does that make any sense?? Does that warrant her being removed from her house?? Thr answer is NO!!

I called APS, I called her doctor, I called the social worker at the hospital, I called an elder lawyer. They all told me the same thing. My mom was competent. She passed the competency test at the hospital. My mother suffered from mental illness and bad decisions. But that doesn’t make her incompetent. So all of them told me there was NOTHING I could do about it.

So I backed off and she slept in the bathroom for months, until her legs were so swollen she could barely walk. The doctor told her she needed to lie down, so she took the doctors advice and slept on the couch in the living room.

I stepped out of it. I left her alone about it and she came to the realization with her doctor to stop sleeping in the friggin bathroom!! Leave your parents be.

Sorry to hear that you plan to do nothing, because mom wants that.

I will say that calling APS or even the police may be fruitless, as the parents/mom can deny entry. Can it hurt? No. Can it help? Not if mom says we're fine, go away.

Second issue - too many people think having POA is the answer to everything. It is not. POA for medical (or alternatively medical releases in doc office, if mom would sign) allows you to have access to their medical conditions and potentially make medical decisions for them, if they cannot. POA for financial gives you (depending on how it's written) access to financial information, power to sign documents if they can't, manage financials if they can't, etc. One exclusion to the financial POA is that federal entities do NOT honor POAs. The only LEGAL way to manage someone else's SS income is to apply for and be appointed Rep Payee. If/when this is initiated, the person (or in this case possibly persons) being applied for will get notification and can call and refuse it (think mom, dad is likely beyond capability to even sign for POA or figure out how to call SS and say no.) The VA will require their own version of a POA as well. POA does NOT give you any power over their lives, nor does it give you power to say where they will live, or how.

Guardianship is really the only way to be able to make the determinations for where they live and what services they need. Even then, it might not be full guardianship (Babs75 can enlighten you on this!) If you applied to be guardian for either or both (tough job if you aren't relatively close in proximity), they could still remain in the home, but it could give you more say about getting repairs done, getting it cleaned, getting benefits, getting care-givers AND getting mom off the road. If you chose not to be guardian, the state could assume that responsibility. While they would still be your parents and you could maintain a relationship, if you wanted, you would have no say in where they live, how their assets, including the home, would be used.

Given the seriousness of their conditions, I don't see how backing off completely makes sense. It is your choice, but it doesn't seem right. If mom were to suddenly pass, what would become of your father? He is clearly in need, and although she might be able to meet some of his needs, if she isn't there, he could meet a very bad end.

My mother was adamant she wouldn't move. I tried bringing in aides, only 1hr/day, to get her used to them, with intent to increase time and care as needed. Less than 2 months later, she refused to let them in. We made plans for the move, which is when the EC atty told me we couldn't force her to move, but the facility wouldn't accept a committal (aka guardianship), so we had to make up a reason. She provided that by injuring her leg (she called it a bruise, but it was cellulitis, a SERIOUS infection.) Had we not been planning the move when we did, she would likely have died from that infection quickly, as it leads to sepsis. Even before the injury, my take on it was I would NOT leave my mother in her own place, to die alone, some god-awful miserable death. She wasn't even as bad off as you describe, both health wise and home condition!

But, seems you've made your decision. I'm posting this anyway, in case it might help someone else make a different choice.

It sounds as if you have gotten a lot of advice and I hope you can use some of it, but be at peace as much as you can. They are acting as if they have no children (and no friends either because people DO ask friends to be POA), so just do what you feel you need to do to be emotionally whole and to be there to whatever extent they would like from you, if that works for you. If they don't want help, you cannot force them. (Maybe report Mom to the Texas DMV anonymously if that is possible. My husband reported his parents back at the end of October 2020 as one is partially blind and was told he shouldn't drive and the other's license expired in 2019. But so far they haven't heard a peep from the DMV. What else can you do?)

Cartermac, I feel your pain. I have been where you are. It is a horrible position to be in. My mother was 96 living independently in her home. She was competent by the standard of the medical profession but around me was somewhat delusional.

She was 96, a hoarder, a gambling addict, refused to bathe or shower or change her clothes and refused any outside help.

I called APS on her and they did NOTHING. They told me since she could take call a bus to the grocery store, pay her own bills, cook her own food in the microwave there was nothing they could do to remove her from her own home or to insist that she have outside help. It's the LAW.

So, i backed off going to her house as much. I went over once a week and my son went over twice a week to take out her garbage and bring in her mail. SHE WANTED NO OUTSIDE HELP. Just had to make that clear.

So on October 27th I brought her over some food and when I went inside, I found her laying face down on the floor but still alert and able to respond with yes and no answers. I immediately called 911. They brought her to the hospital and i met her there.

They discovered she had a stroke on one side and that the stroke caused her to fall. She always had a fantastic memory, but the stroke took that away. She didn't know where she was or who i even was. She wasn't in any pain at all. She couldn't eat so they gave her an IV because the stroke caused her not to be able to swallow.

The next day she took a turn for the worse and the doctors told me that they felt she needed hospice and taken off the IV and all medications since she wasn't going to recover from this. I agreed to it. She never wanted to live without her mind, or being able to walk. She would have been a vegetable and she never wanted to live that way. She passed away on Oct 31st with me and my brother by her side.

You are doing the RIGHT thing by letting go of everything. Your parents don't want any help and you can't force any help on them. You have to wait for the crises to happen, the fall, or the stroke, etc and then you can intervene. But until then, you are RIGHT to just let them be. Just let go of it.

Hugs to you.

Sounds like you just have to wait it out till you get THE phone call. Peace be with you until then. You do have some ideas on how to proceed from that point. It ,of course, will be difficult and heart breaking and you will look back on this time and know you tried and they just were not ready to accept your help.

Involve the FAMILY Doctor-- remove Driver's licenses. Then get him to advise you to be their POA. Then do what you have to do including lying to them if need be.
Tell them they have won a two week stay in the best place in town--- meals included-- in the mean time do you homework and find the best assisted living facility with memory care-- then collaborate with them. THEN-- once you are their POA-- apply for the Aid And Attendance Program though Veteran Affairs and the County SRO -- veterans service officer to expedite this monthly pay for both parents-- that means an extra $1144 per month times two- both parents... ( I think -- ask the SRO) also get the State involved-- getting your Dad full social security disability-- even if he is already receiving soc sec retirement.

When you go AFL hunting-- go eat lunch there-- and check out an apartment for them... separate beds. Perhaps even separate bedrooms. The get the low down on how much help the memory care unit will be... do not go with hospice right away... they are not as dependable as in house staff. Make sure the AFL has access to a good and kind decent visiting doctor... not just a nurse practitioner.

When it comes time to explain the good news-- bring all the family around and do it in love and in two or three weeks the parents will forget about the house and you can get it cleaned up and sell it. Do not ask for help from sibs or parents-- just do it. Better to get forgiveness than permission from any sticks in the mud who think that honor must rule the day-- sorry--- that day is come and gone-- new ball game. Good luck and God bless. OH-- also good to involve their church leader -- of course later in the game once they are well established at the AFL.

Imho, this is a recipe for disaster. Your mother can NO LONGER operate a motor vehicle. Disable the auto by any means possible. It's time for facility living for your parents. You should also notify Adult Protective Services of their frighteningly sad living conditions/arrangements STAT as time is critical for them.

First of all, take the car keys away from your mother for her safety and the safety of others.. Down the road things are going to get more difficult. They really should not be living alone. I would consider a decent nursing facility for both of them. It is the best alternative in my opinion. I think you could use some support to help you with this situation. I would notify Adult Protective Services and explain the situation. This would be in the best interest of your parents. The best to all of you.

Yes, please call APS and the VA. Mom can’t drive. Someone needs to take the car keys away before she kills someone.
An Area Agency on Aging is another good resource to call for advice.

I’m sorry I know it’s hard. I pursued guardianship for my difficult mother. It cost over $20,000. I would not do it again. Our parents make their choices when they are younger. As a child we can help only as much as they allow it.

Cartermac,

I think the first question you should ask yourself is "What do I want to see happen for my parents?".

If they refuse to grant a P.O.A., you may have to seek guardianship thru legal means.

It does seem to me that a visit from you is important. It's important for them to know that you only want to help them, not take over their lives (although, ultimately that's what needs to happen).

Mom & Dad are desperately trying to hold on to their dignity! However, the situation seems as though it's becoming dangerous. Not just for them, but for others as well with Mom still behind the wheel. When my Aunt was still driving with no license and impaired vision, I disconnected the battery cables in her car. She thought it needed repairs, but never remembered to call someone. Is there a neighbor that could do this for you?

Their local chapter of the Council for aging might be a good resource for you.
An Elder care attorney.

I guess my point is to try everything you can to make your answer to my opening question happen before you get APS involved.

Best wishes and (((hugs)))

are you the only child ? if so you may want to get a poa in place asap

listen my friend just go down to your parents make a few phone calls one is to the va because there is help through them take them some where hire someone to clean the house for them and get a social worker involved see what can be done maybe the can stay in their home but get a aide to come every day for 6 to 7 hours a day 7 days a week and get every thing fix in their house good luck

If I missed this, I apologize in advance. Is there a reason you are unable to travel to Houston to better assess the situation and meet with mom and dad in person?

Perhaps if you go, you can take with you legal forms such as Advanced Directives and a Medical Proxy Form.printed out and ready for signatures. This way at LEAST you'll get the ball rolling. It's likely you'll need to have these notarized, but if mom and dad are still able to ambulate, then you may be able to get them to sign off in front of a notary. At least you will get the ball rolling and if you have the proxy you will be able to discuss your dad with the VA when he is hospitalized.

If you make another trip there, go to your dad's local VA Medical Center and ask to speak to the VA Social Worker at that facility. She will need your dad's full name and Veteran Serial Number to look him up, but can provide help for your dad. The Social Worker cannot do anything for your mom unless she, too, served her country in some military capacity. However, if your mom ever has to go to the hospital, once again, ask for the Social Worker for that hospital's department. Explain what you are observing and ask him/her to explore options for your mom's safety and well being. Let the medical profession do this for you since your parents refuse to include you on decisions. For MY mom, it took her Primary Care Physician to take away her Drivers License (he acted after both my older brother & I wrote a letter to him about our concerns with mom's driving -- she was 92 years old at the time). Her doctor told her that he was taking her License away until she went to the next city and passed a Driver's Education Test in person. Of course, she would never go because we warned her that if she fails, there is no 2nd chance. She was too afraid to try. Dad voluntarily gave up his License -- he could tell he was making mistakes driving and was afraid he'd injure somebody.
Also, see if you can make an appointment with the local VA Rep Office to get your dad to agree to apply for Aid & Attendance Benefits (money for in-home care) -- NOT Disability Benefits, but Aid & Attendance Benefits. The way I convinced my dad to do this is to think of mom (his wife). I told him that I understand he wants to save those benefits for those coming home from Afghanistan and other places in the middle-east, but he also has to think about mom and she is getting worse and will need in-home benefits should something happen to him. Dad thinks he's okay, so help him think about mom. Once he agreed, then he was willing to share his DD-214 (or the WW2 equivalent of that, which is WD AGO Form 53-55, as well as his Honorable Discharge Certificate, & Marriage Certificate (which were locked in dad's wall-safe). During the appointment he also will need to bring his most current monthly income statement, last IRS tax filing, and your mom's (as a Survivor later) monthly income statement. If approved for Aid & Attendance (takes 5 to 6 months to find out), then money benefits will be provided by VA for either in-home care by Nurse Aides or toward a nicer Assisted Living Facility or Nursing Home care.
Even if your dad does not agreed to apply for benefits, make a VA Rep Office appointment and explain what's going on and get the VA Rep's recommendations on what you might be able to do or get options for when your dad is too sick to help himself. While there also get the info for applying to be buried in a nearby National Cemetery. If planned in advance, your mom can be buried first or on top of your dad, if the National Cemetery receives pre-planning info, either when or just before (under Hospice care) the first one passes. (The National Cemetery has to dig 12 feet instead of 6 feet.) Your dad's info would be on the front side of the Cemetery Marker and your mom's info would be on the back side. Would save you a lot of money. Funeral Homes who specialize in military funerals have this info too. My heart goes out to you, especially during this COVID time. Best wishes on everything.

Yes, many states do provide assistance and support to help older people remain living at home.

So... why do you think it's such a terrible idea for the OP to contact the authorities? His parents aren't listening to him but they might, with luck and sensitive handling, accept advice from a social worker. How else to connect them with that local and state assistance?