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The car's owner, which the Gov requires in father's name only, must have a valid insurance policy. He does NOT have a drivers license anymore. Catch--22
There is no Catch 22. You have a man about to be a skilled nursing care custodial resident who cannot drive & has no license. No need for a car.
I think the rationale for LTC Medicaid allowing an elder on this program to own their home and their car as an exempt asset for their lifetime is that it is a CONTINUATION OF AN EXISTING OWNERSHIP OF AN ASSET(S) as they maintain a “right of return”. They could - in theory - exit the NH and go back to their home should circumstances change (like their son & his wf is able to move in to caregiver for them); and so they are allowed to keep their old home and their old car for that very distant but still possible possibility.
Would so love an update as to what the caseworker said about this.
If Dad has no licence why do you want to buy him a car? So you can drive it? If Dad needs Medicaid for his care in a facility in the near future, the car will just become an albatross. You may be able to buy it, but it has to be Market Value. If u sell it, thats money u have to spend down. He won't be able to afford insurance on it. You won't be able to drive it. Can't change the title over to you, Medicaid has a 5 yr look back. Find another way to spend down his money. You can always place him in a facility paying privately that excepts medicaid. Then when his money starts to run out, you apply for Mrdicaid. Easiest way to get them into care.
My dad's car lists both of us on the Title. He doesn't drive. I had no trouble in getting insurance but with our insurance company, anyone not living in our home, the 24 hr caregiver, can not use the car on a regular basis for more than 14 days can not be insured. When our caregiver left she took a car she was using and refused to return it. I had to file a police report as she became an unauthorized user to protect our home in case of an accident . Also, in AL, there is a law that the house is not considered an asset IF my dad left me the house as I am an adult child with 100% disability. The house is excluded as an asset as I live here and I can't be thrown out. My dad, before his dimensia, added my name to the deed, unbeknownst to me, and I found that the house won't even have to go through probate, if that's possible for you... maybe a bunch of jibberish, but , hope it helps...
I know of a blind person that owned a car and had it titled in their name and had insurance. They obviously could not drive but had a driver. I think the "catch" might be can your father legally sign a purchase contract and or can they sign the title? If this is the one thing can another purchase be made? Pre pay funeral? New hearing aids? Glasses? Up grade a walker or wheelchair? Purchase a large quantity of supplies that will be needed like Incontinence underwear, wipes, ointments? A Lift Chair that he may need as his mobility becomes less and it will be easier just to get in and out of the chair. A TV for his room, a laptop so he can play games. A device like Alexa or Echo. these can be used to monitor him, remind him of a schedule or appointment, used as an alarm clock, turn on or off lights. And if you have one you can "Drop in" on him to monitor him yourself. (scary that that can be done)
Interesting question. Why exactly, does the Gov require the car to be in father's name only?
I don't have the answer, but am exploring this topic. Not the spend down part, but the insurance part. (Could you become a co-owner of the vehicle?)
I found this: Health reasons prevent you from driving If you have a health condition that prevents you from driving, you may still want to consider maintaining auto insurance. If you put your car in storage for a while and your license expires while you recover, keeping a policy in place may protect your financial investment in your vehicle in case anything happens to your car while in storage. You may also want to keep an auto insurance policy in place if you think you may drive again in the future to avoid a lapse in coverage, which could result in a higher rate when you seek coverage again. You don’t drive your car, but others still do Even if you are not the main driver for your car, you likely still need auto insurance to cover your vehicle. You may be able to do this by listing another person as the primary driver of the vehicle and maintaining yourself as an excluded driver on the policy.
when my folks moved in with us they wanted to keep their car to take them places,, but Mom no longer drove and Dad was not able to, so like you say we were unable to get insurance on it. I had to buy it at market value to get in my name and insurance. Otherwise I would have been driving them around in my SUV. If you need another car to drive them, maybe look at used one for yourself for that purpose?
Buy a car why? For someone who can't drive and has no license, seems fishy to me and I am not a Medicaid expert, but will assume they will question it as well.
Sorry but I think that you will have to buy your own car, with your own money.
Yes, this cannot be done. Now that you know car is not a possibility, what are chances that your loved one may need a motorized scooter in future? Have prepaid funeral expenses been done? Is all attorney work done for good paperwork for POA and etc. All of these can be used to spend down INCLUDING a visit to an Elder Law Attorney to find out other options.
I have to agree with SP. If Dad has no valid licence and has not been driving Medicaid may wonder why a car was bought in spend down period. If he already had one, that's a different story. You can also spend down by using his money for private pay. Will get him a bed faster.
I started Moms application in April. She had 20k. She entered LTC May 1st and the 20k paid May and June. June I confirmed with the caseworker that he had all info needed and Mom was now spent down. Her Medicaid started July 1st.
Sounds to me like the used car is for you. Nice try but that's not going to work for the spend down. Get dad a really nice and comfortable recliner as expensive as he can afford and go from there. Prepay for funeral expenses, things like this, but the car would be a no. I get it though it seems like such a waste to have to spend money on dad just to get rid of it but you can't gift it to anyone who may need it. But that's the government for you.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I think the rationale for LTC Medicaid allowing an elder on this program to own their home and their car as an exempt asset for their lifetime is that it is a CONTINUATION OF AN EXISTING OWNERSHIP OF AN ASSET(S) as they maintain a “right of return”. They could - in theory - exit the NH and go back to their home should circumstances change (like their son & his wf is able to move in to caregiver for them); and so they are allowed to keep their old home and their old car for that very distant but still possible possibility.
Would so love an update as to what the caseworker said about this.
When our caregiver left she took a car she was using and refused to return it. I had to file a police report as she became an unauthorized user to protect our home in case of an accident . Also, in AL, there is a law that the house is not considered an asset IF my dad left me the house as I am an adult child with 100% disability. The house is excluded as an asset as I live here and I can't be thrown out. My dad, before his dimensia, added my name to the deed, unbeknownst to me, and I found that the house won't even have to go through probate, if that's possible for you... maybe a bunch of jibberish, but , hope it helps...
I think the "catch" might be can your father legally sign a purchase contract and or can they sign the title?
If this is the one thing can another purchase be made? Pre pay funeral? New hearing aids? Glasses? Up grade a walker or wheelchair? Purchase a large quantity of supplies that will be needed like Incontinence underwear, wipes, ointments? A Lift Chair that he may need as his mobility becomes less and it will be easier just to get in and out of the chair. A TV for his room, a laptop so he can play games. A device like Alexa or Echo. these can be used to monitor him, remind him of a schedule or appointment, used as an alarm clock, turn on or off lights. And if you have one you can "Drop in" on him to monitor him yourself. (scary that that can be done)
Why exactly, does the Gov require the car to be in father's name only?
I don't have the answer, but am exploring this topic.
Not the spend down part, but the insurance part. (Could you become a co-owner of the vehicle?)
I found this:
Health reasons prevent you from driving
If you have a health condition that prevents you from driving, you may still want to consider maintaining auto insurance. If you put your car in storage for a while and your license expires while you recover, keeping a policy in place may protect your financial investment in your vehicle in case anything happens to your car while in storage.
You may also want to keep an auto insurance policy in place if you think you may drive again in the future to avoid a lapse in coverage, which could result in a higher rate when you seek coverage again.
You don’t drive your car, but others still do
Even if you are not the main driver for your car, you likely still need auto insurance to cover your vehicle. You may be able to do this by listing another person as the primary driver of the vehicle and maintaining yourself as an excluded driver on the policy.
Sorry but I think that you will have to buy your own car, with your own money.
I started Moms application in April. She had 20k. She entered LTC May 1st and the 20k paid May and June. June I confirmed with the caseworker that he had all info needed and Mom was now spent down. Her Medicaid started July 1st.
Is this a car for you to drive your dad to appointments and such in,?
Is there some way to title the car so that you can pay for the insurance?