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VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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She gets lost going to places she has been going to for years and is losing her driving skills. She is a danger to herself and others. She enjoys being independent though.
My father is 85 and healthy except for macular degeneration and is hard of hearing. He has always been the provider, and is very proud. He drives to the gym each day and to the store, and Doctor appointments. We are willing to help with errands are bi weekly outings. When the topic comes up he tends to get upset and defensive. We love and respect him dearly, what else can we do. I don't want to trick him or be dishonest in any way. Loving Daughter
Take her to the DMV or Secretary of State and they have someone to test older driving skills. Let them break the bad news and you can remain the emotional support to help them through this loss.
I have an update on having my mom's driver's license suspended. Folks on here told me se would forgive me. The good news is she has just as people told me on these forums! I also recently had to ask her to stop cooking. Cooking and baking was my mom's favorite thing to do. But she would start cooking and completely forget she was cooking. I don't always know when she cooks so we have burned many pots. I asked her not to cook any more because it was dangerous. To my surprise she agreed! I was glad I didn't have to remove the knobs from the stove - that felt like it would be degrading. The only downside is now I have to cook for a very picky eater while I am in a weight loss program. It is worth it to keep us safe! I hope your situation ends as good as mine.
I am a caretaker who is also in the process of not driving because of a neurological condition. And for me it has been a process. First I gave up long distance driving and driving at night. Then I gave up freeway driving, and taking my grandchildren places. Now I only drive a few blocks around my house to the grocery store, and to the senior center. If you want to encourage your family member to give up driving, help them to find an alternative. For example: I have a list of friends who will give me a ride; I can ask my children for a ride; there is a handicap transport bus which takes me to my doctors appointments for five dollars one-way; there is a community care car which will take me places in my little town for four dollars one-way; there is the regularly scheduled bus that stops two blocks from my house; and I can either write my big new tricycle or walk if it's a mile or less, and I'm having a good day. For fun, shopping trips, or should order groceries,there's always the Internet. for nice long visits, there is Skype, e-mail, snail mail, and phone calls.. Do everything you can to encourage viewing not driving as an adventure, a problem to be solved. Giving up driving is not a humiliation, a comment on deterioration, or a punishment.spend a few minutes imagining what it would be like if you were suddenly deprived of the privilege of driving Be empathetic when you discuss the matter.Work together to make a list of the places your parent usually frequents, and make a list of alternative ways to get there.
Debralee, we are once an adult and twice a child. Be thankful she is giving it up on her own and not driving through a storefront. We had to take Mom's car away in May, and after three MD's told her not to drive, she has finally agreed to sell it.
My mother who is 83 still maintains her license, but is too afraid to drive a newer replacement car she bought. She bought this newer car without test driving it thinking she will slowly get use to it. It has been just sitting in her driveway for three weeks registered and insured. Now she wants to sell it for less than she paid for it. What irritates me is she made this purchase without thinking it through or asking for my opinion like she usually does. Now she wants me to help her sell the car and take care of taking her to the insurance company to cancel the insurance and registration. What is it with the elderly who want to continue making decisions without accepting the responsibility that comes with it ????????????????
What you MUST keep in mind is: 1. Is the general public safe when he's driving. 2. Is there a possibility he may get lost and not find his way back. 3. Can your conscience be intact if you knew he injured or killed someone while driving when he could have been prevented form doing this damage! I say no, you shouldn't be able to pass off the blame to him if he is mentally incapacitated. It should be on the hands of the familial caretaker. My mother hired an attorney when this happened and the judge ended up granting guardianship to the two daughters and declaired her incapacatated giving us the right to remove the car.
Summer123, I can empathize with your situation. Driving is not a right. It is a privilege. Is he and others at risk for injury or death if he is allowed to drive? That's what needs to be determined. Your local police can advise you, and then it's out of your hands.
Summer, your father would be doing battle with the DMV, not you and the doctor. In NY, the driver eval and road test are done by the state. If the state is dumb enough to pass him and he's in an accident, you and the MD are protected and the victims can sue the state DMV.
In all honesty there is no way of getting around her becoming upset, it will happen no matter what. When we have to begin being parents to our parents, we do not want them to become angry with us, we want to be nice and them be compliant.....for the most part it does not happen, you wind up having to be firm and stand your ground!
New question. What if the doctor and I, the daughter suggested a driving evaluation and then my elderly father threatened to hire an attorney to represent his rights and that he wasn't going to quit driving until he was ready. ? He will know when the time is right, according to him. He is 81 with moderate stage dementia/Alzheimer's.
Dad's doctor turned him in and he was madder than a stirred up hornets nest! Still is. Making it the doctors fault is way easier than taking the fall yourself. Mom's may be different I am not sure, but removing keys from a dad/man you may as well cut their man parts off. Good luck with this issue it is not in my book an easy one. You could always leave her car there and just take a spark plug out???
NI answered earlier but now have more information. I contacted my city about elder programs. The city has volunteers that will drive my mom and also taxi vouchers. Although this may not make my mom less angry, it does take some of the pressure off of me and my sister. The drivers may, or may not help her with shopping, but it at least may give her back a feeling of autonomy. Contact your city to see if they have any similar programs. My city also has Meals on Wheels and a friendly visitor program.
The road test examiners are extremely lax when it comes to seniors. Mom's first mistake was to press the gas to the floor instead of putting it on the brake. She could not do a three point turn, nor could she parallel park. The examiner thought she was "cute as a button" and passed her. Any 16 year-old would have failed.
I took my husband 82 with AD for his renewal in February - I figured they would not renew as he had to answer questions, but he passed & he has a new license for 6 years, but he does not drive anymore, he is proud of the license - I was ready to deal with the situation whether the MVA renewed or not. But as Roscoe states many are driving that have no license, so is it worth the argument not to let them possess the little card as long as one is assured they are not driving.
obviously....they cannot pass the renewal test.....thus they can't get a license......but just think of all the seniors who continue to drive......without a valid license
Tough love. Tell the DMV about her memory loss, getting lost, and they WILL revoke her license. Tell her you love her and don't want her to get into an accident, much less kill someone who is innocent. Take the keys away, disconnect the battery, anything you have to in order to prevent her from driving. So she gets upset. Tough love. You can do it.
Dear Jeania, The cold hard facts are that the feelings of anyone mentally impaired and incompetent to drive cannot be a factor in the equation. I like the suggestions about losing the keys, mechanically disabling the vehicle, saying the meds prohibit driving, and getting forms from the MVC. You are going to have to deal with her emotional fallout no matter which way it goes down. If you want to take the blame off of yourself, I would contact the doctor, let him document her chart that she is in dementia and driving should be discontinued. He can then give you a script for the MVC requesting a new driver test for your Mom to evaluate her capabilities. As soon as the MVC gets that, they will fail her and rescind her license. Voila!!
I recently posted almost the same question. I got only a few answers, it seems there is no easy way. I live with my mom and am retired so I can drive her. She was angry when I suggested she stop driving and had a tantrum. She insists I hate her. I finally sent a form to the Department of Motor Vehicles in CA requesting she be tested. In about 2 weeks she got a letter from them requesting information from her doctor or else her license would be suspended. l tried to help her fill out the forms (against my better judgement but I was already feeling guilty about "ratting" on mom.) She got angry about the form and refused to sign it. She insisted that "they" have to fill it out. The result is her license is suspended in a few weeks (I told her it was now.) She wouldn't speak to me the rest of the day but did talk to me the next day. Now the issue is how to get her keys just in case she decides to drive anyway. Fortunately I have the support of my sister who lives close by as well as my adult children. Even so, this was painful. The other awful part of this is thinking about my own future and having to stop driving. You have my sympathy on this extremely difficult and heart wrenching issue.
Another thing - see if you can provide some transportation - public transportation might not be safe it there's dementia, but a neighborhood college student maybe?
I shake my head when I hear people advising a conversation where you confront your parent with the evidence of their diminished driving skills and ask them to hand over the keys. If your mom believed that she is an unsafe driver, she'd listen to you. But, that's exactly the issue. Despite all evidence to the contrary, she's SURE she is perfectly capable of driving safely. It's a fool's errand to try to have a conversation like that.
Avoid an ugly confrontation. Disable the car. Let mom try to start it. Then, call the tow truck and have it taken somewhere it can be sold, used or stored. When mom asks when the car will be ready just keep making excuses while you get her accustomed to life without driving.
It stinks having to deceive your parents, but in some situations, dementia makes fibbing the kindest strategy.
check with your state DMV - some states will take away the license/car, thus sparing the family from being the bad guy. If you mom has dementia, you CANNOT reason with her - she can't reason and she can't remember.
We got the MD to refer her for a road test. She passed the road test, we let her drive until this May, then we borrowed the car and never brought it back. It takes a neurologist to tell her she cannot drive, and she denies he ever said that. Take the car and stand your ground.
My mom is 82 and has nerve damage in her right leg and foot. Her doctor told her not to drive anymore which she hasn't for 3years. But she still insists she can drive and gets mad when I tell her she shouldn't and we end up yelling at each other. It's probably a moot point anyway since she hadn't even attempted to drive at all. But she's very adamant about still being able to drive and is in a state of denial. There is no good way to tell an elderly parent they shouldn't be driving. Taking away the keys is probably the best thing to do but be prepared for the fight of your life! Good luck.
This resolution is more cut and dried, black and white if you will, then some other issues. This isn't just about the feelings of our elders, this is about death or serious injury to our elders or others. This IS NOT EVER a decision that can be left up to them because their reasoning ability is not always intact. The approach to reason with them, for example if they are safe driving their grandchildren (and as we just read, some thought they were when they weren't), only works if they ARE able to reason and their reasoning is reasonable. If their reasoning is out to lunch in any way, then "the disappearing keys" gambit is the way to go. Then redirect, redirect, redirect to get around the where are my keys or where is my car business. When it is no longer their time to drive, they just CAN'T be permitted to, period. Alliwing them to continue to drive, even in order to preserve they're feeling of independence, is just too dangerous.
when I tried the disabling my husband went to a neighbor & had them call a local car place to come fix it. He has AD , but he is not stupid ( he reminds me daily that he's not stupid) I like MgCarters answer, done & over. All I could picture in my mind as the POA that I would be the cause of him injuring himself or others & us being sued for everything we have if I caved in & let him drive.
This is so hard. Giving up the keys means you have lost all your freedom, and now must depend on others. It is heartbreaking. My Dad has parkinson's and would freeze for seconds at a time. Nobody in my family would deal with it. Finally Dad and I had a talk, He knew he should stop driving he just couldn't get his head around it. I flat out told him. He is a danger to everyone on the road, because he can't get his foot from the gas to the brake fast enough to avoid hitting people. I looked him right in the eye, and told him I would call the police to report a dangerous driver on the road. Before he left the driveway, they would be here. They would start proceedings to take his license. I meant it. He knew I meant. He stopped, after a year he sold his car. He still gives me the evil eye every once in awhile. I'd rather have him angry at me, then the guilt of a person's injury or death on my conscience because I was afraid of upsetting him.
My return button got hit before I was done. There's no talking about this IMO because if they/she could reason properly or at all they would be scared to death knowing they are getting lost. Take action first, remove the vehicle and the keys and discuss later. If you have to find a fall guy (if it cannot be you) let it be her doctor, pastor, police officer etc. Reporting her to the DMV via the doctor could result in a formal letter from the DMV but it doesn't stop her from operating the vehicle. Even with authority figures terminating their driving rights, some people will ingore warnings/laws and drive anyway because they do not/can not reason. You have to do it for her before someone gets hurt.
Not only will issues of driving be a concern, but I found out that my stepdad, had not renewed his license in years, or had the car maintenance attended to. The car was ready to fall apart. So we sold the car. Then we moved him to my step-sister to monitor them and she allowed him to buy a car, but monitored, he was only allowed to drive to senior center for lunch but that ended when my MOM passed from Alzheimer's. ...
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I say no, you shouldn't be able to pass off the blame to him if he is mentally incapacitated. It should be on the hands of the familial caretaker.
My mother hired an attorney when this happened and the judge ended up granting guardianship to the two daughters and declaired her incapacatated giving us the right to remove the car.
In NY, the driver eval and road test are done by the state. If the state is dumb enough to pass him and he's in an accident, you and the MD are protected and the victims can sue the state DMV.
God Bless You, this is never easy!
? He will know when the time is right, according to him. He is 81 with moderate stage dementia/Alzheimer's.
Avoid an ugly confrontation. Disable the car. Let mom try to start it. Then, call the tow truck and have it taken somewhere it can be sold, used or stored. When mom asks when the car will be ready just keep making excuses while you get her accustomed to life without driving.
It stinks having to deceive your parents, but in some situations, dementia makes fibbing the kindest strategy.