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As a caregiving spouse for late moderte Alzheimer's patient, there is now a terrible loneliness felt in all aspects of our relationship....what are the moral and ethical issues concerning my seeking and starting a new relationship with someone else....this would be after 50 years of absolute faithfulness to our marriage and would still be there for her until such time as alternate full time living arrangements become necessary.

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@bookworm
Love you "christians". Thinking every emotion stops when your loved one forgets who you are or thinks you're their brother or sister instead of their lover. I am sure that feels so fulfilling.

Thanks though for thinking the marriage license means everyone must be dead inside after this sad time. You're incredible understanding of your dead corpse of a libido means a lot to real people. Best of luck to your "spouse".
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The question wasn't "are you a bad person if you stray from your incapacitated spouse, yes or no?" The question was "what are the moral issues?"

I'm rather tickled by the notion of its being your Christian duty to see that your own intimate needs are met.
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The question to ask is: What would you want your wife to do, were the situation reversed? Would you want her to be happy and feel alive? Or would you want her to suffer because you were mentally incapacitated? Seventy plus is not necessarily old, if one is in reasonably good health. The Universe judges us by our own standards.
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I grew up in the church as did my spouse. Being happily married and sexually compatible and attracted for fifty years make a transition to celibacy years into Alzheimer's harder, not easier because it is no longer a moral issue. Your spouse is your child, becoming more and more like your infant on a monthly basis. God helps you understand this transition and empowered you to be your spouse's loving parent to give care and comfort needed. At the same time, God leads you to understand you must be strong and get your own needs met in order to meet the needs of your child. There is no room here for those who sit in judgment of these changing conditions only God can understand and instruct.
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LeeCaregiver1, I think if I were you I would find a professional to talk to and work through all these emotions and decisions. I would not judge you but more importantly, if you judge yourself, then you are internally conflicted. This is really personal and between you, your conscience and God. If you now being to feel that you should withhold her meds to slow progression and there is another woman in your life, you might have guilt because you feel later in some way you 'rushed' her demise for your own purposes. If you make sure she gets them, you could end up feeling that you put her through more misery in order to AVOID your own guilt. And end up feeling guilty. I can sense your internal struggle and your understandable desire for companionship and intimacy. For your own sake work this out and then once you feel you have the peace you seek, don't keep asking this question. At this point I don't think you're ready for another relationship of an intimate sort because the happiness you are looking for could end up being the last thing you find. God bless.
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LeeCaregiver1, the disease is going to run its course whatever you do. The dementia drugs, when they work, help reduce the severity of the symptoms. Contrary the original hype about Aricept, for example, there is nothing on the market that can change the inevitable course of the disease. The drugs are not "life support" -- they only help with the current symptoms. If they have stopped helping (or never helped) talk to her doctor about discontinuing them.
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I think this is a personal, individual matter. Life is lived more the the grey areas than the black and white. There is a lot to consider. For example, if you were childless and your spouse were in oblivion and you cared for her/him really, what difference does having companionship matter? But life is a lot more complicated. Seek some spiritual counseling and take it slow. On one hand, we only get one 'go round'. This is not a dress rehearsal. On the other, if guilt eats you up, if you alienate your adult children but pushing another person in their faces, do you really want to do that either? I have no answers. I would just be mindful and take this slow and carefully. No one knows another's experience till they walk a mile in their shoes.
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Do I stop giving her the Alzheimer's Medication that is suppose to slow down the disease? I feel like I am putting her on Life Supoort and we have signed papers to say do not put me on life support. She has regressed and continues after 3 years. Should I just let the disease run it course and doeverything to make her confortable and well taken care of?
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Do I stop giving her the Alzheimer's Medication that is suppose to slow down the disease? I feel like I am putting her on Life Supoort and we have signed papers to say do not put me on life support. She has regressed and continues after 3 years. Should I just let the disease run it course and doeverything to make her confortable and well taken care of?
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Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor retired in part because her husband had Alzheimer's disease. She later reported he had formed another relationship in his long term care facility. They didn't divorce. I liked the post about the man who formed a relationship with a woman who helped him care for his wife. That sounds like an honest relationship. If a friend supported another through caring for his ill wife, I don't think their morals are in question. However Children can be hurt deeply by parents forming relationships outside the primary relationship regardless of the children's ages or the parents age or health status. It would be difficult to know right action for another but it feels like a heavy weight regardless of the action taken. If the entire sphere of influence is considered a right decision might appear.
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You aren't abandoning your vows or your wife in my opinion. You are still standing by her. There is nothing wrong with seeking friendship of any form. It will help you continue to help your wife without resentment.
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It seems to me that most of these comments hinge on one word - death. There is a physical death and then there is emotional death, death of the marital relationship, even though the caregiver is totally committed to the ongoing care of the Alzheimer's wife/husband. The Holy bible does not address every sort of life situations. there are grey areas on life where a person must seek out the biblical principles that help them make the best decision without violating what they understand in God's will as found in scripture. If the marital relationship is dead, then the seeking of a new relationship (casual of more) may not be in violation of Gods Word. To determine the rightness or wrongness (sin) in a situation such as is being described, a proper definition of :death" must be established and caregiver interpretation should follow accordingly. For example, among younger couples, birth control is OK and for other couples, it is not. both may be right in the context of what they believe as the Bible does not give guidance in either case. To him that believes it is wrong, it is wrong and to him who believes it is OK, he/she may proceed as long as the first priority is the best possible care for the Alz patient and in that, love that has endured decades through good times and bad, must continue to be present and demonstrated until physical death. My wife of nearly 50 years once told me that she believed I would need someone in her place if I would one day be left alone. Little by little a new relationship has formed. My wife is in far advanced Alz, does not talk except a word or two now and then, has good vital signs, and has also miraculously survived a brain stem stroke (and two other strokes last fall). The woman in my new relationship understands that my first priority is the love I have for my wife and her continued care in the best skilled nursing care unit in the area. am at peace with my decisions - cautiously, but wondering if others see the importance of defining the word "death" in an Alz context compared to the traditional definition which focuses only on physical death.
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Ssb1971 she would be represented by a guardian ad lytem like one of the kids with an attorney, or one of the kids would become her guardian and with an attorney represent her interest in the proceeding. Her spouse would have another attorney. If the whole matter were non-contentious, it would proceed smoothly (if everyone favored him being free to love and remarry separately from her). If there wasn't agreement and was going to be contentious, I wouldn't recommend it.
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I agree he is not himself right now and is reaching out for help. But as Jeaniegibbs said I am afraid of losing him and cannot cut ties completely. I have thought about this and have driven my husband mad with chatting about it. Don't get me wrong I think it would be easier but do not want this. I have lost my mum and can't lose my dad too.

I have to take a step back and just let it go. It won't change the way I feel and it probably won't make things any different but if I don't it will drive me insane.

I do admire the way the chap in the earlier posting was able to divorce his wife. I wish my dad had the strength to do this. Sadly mum cannot write now so is unable sign her signature so this would not be possible anyway.

Thanks for the comments.... wish me luck. And good luck with all the moral dilemmas surrounding the subject. It's not an easy one. x
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ssb1971, here is what I would suggest. I would get counseling for yourself and for your son to deal with the grief process of losing your mom, because as you knew her, she is 'gone'. On top of that you feel anger and betrayal for your dad. He is being selfish now, but he is not really 'right'. Mentally and emotionally, I mean, and you are hurting too much to deal with this yourself. You can tell him "dad, I love you but I feel you are being taken advantage of and that you are risking everything you and mom worked hard to build for this woman. I understand you have needs and you are sad, but I can't handle this now. I will visit mom but I have a life too. I cannot pick up your slack. Until you get some help, as I am going to do, rather than try to put a band aid on this so you don't have to 'feel' so much, I can't be around you. I don't want either of us to say or do anything that will divide us any more". Be firm and let him know you get where he is coming from, but that is not ok with you and you can't really be around this woman or him. If you have to write it down, then do it that way. Stick to your guns but do get the help you need for yourself. I don't think he is really himself right now. It is more typical than you think how many men jump quickly into a new marriage or relationship only to find out that they made a terrible decision out of sadness and loneliness. Men like to be taken care of. We really ARE the stronger sex (and my wonderful husband would be the first to back me up here!). But please, do get some professional help for yourself. Hold you dad accountable but think of him right now as having been taken over by aliens. He is not really himself! Try to let the money thing go. It will only eat away at you. Unfortunately, if he is of sound mind he will do what he will do with that. God bless.
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Frustrated2, I'm glad you can understand and yes I believe my dad was reaching out to who ever was there. I might add that he has always found it hard to maintain healthy relationships with his adult children. Both myself and my brother were very close to mum so it is hard on us. I think the rest of the feamiluy are more accepting of the situation as they haveseen how upset and stressed dad was when he was trying to cope at home. Mum is definitely in the right place now but to me it's like dad has moved on before mum has passed away. I do believe that dad is not strong enough to cope on his own and my gut tells me that he will be with this woman until mum passes away. We still speak and see each other on family occasions, birthdays, mothers day etc. and that is enough but understandably the relationship is very strained. Whenever I broach the subject of the other woman with him, particularly where money is concerned he gets extremely defensive. I do get concerned that he is being taken advantage of as she doesn't work and dad pays for everything. He works long hours and struggles since he is still holding onto the house with one income. I feel that he thinks he owes her.

Th thing that will really bring thing sto a head is if dad says he thinks I should visit mum more. He sees her once a week with this woman due to work commitments and I try and go every week too, in the week. He has mentioned that this is important and makes me feel very guilty if I don't go, to the extent that whenever he speaks to me the first thing he says is have you gone to see mum. I believe he still feels guilty for mum being in a home and in some ways try to push it back on me. I haven't once said that he should go more or that he shouldn't see the other woman so much and spend more time with mum. I am trying to be understanding but never seem to get the same back. I live around 40mins drive from mum's home (dad and other family member live in same town) and feel like I need to take a step back from the situation. I also have family of my own, husband, toddler and work commitments, be it part-time. but this never seems to be taken into account. I am trying to hold onto the relationship for the sake of my mum and my son but am finding it increasingly difficult. The whole situation is very sad as mum was the glue that held everything together as the woman in the family often are and we were always a close family.
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I think I can understand how ssb1971 feels, and her dad too. While I can understand her dad's need for connection, even a relationship, comfort and yes, sex (I am making no moral statement here, just saying I can understand) it seems that choosing a person who was in their family home, taking care of his wife and his children's mother, is a bad choice. I know for a fact when people are emotionally tapped out they make bad choices often, which is exactly why probably he should not have begun this relationship. He is 'reacting' and so are his and his still living wife's adult kids. But hopefully it is not too late; he can tell this woman that he is not in a position to begin a new relationship. He and his kids can and should seek some counseling to reopen lines of communication so they can talk this through, understand and empathize with each other and rebuild their trust and love for each other. People are like empty pitchers; when there is nothing in it, there is nothing left to pour out. They need to be 'refilled' and often a relationship with the wrong, or prematurely wrong person is the direction they go. Living out the loss of mother and wife together as husband and father with his kids will help heal all of them. Casually seeing someone of the opposite sex and quietly, privately enjoying some company and social interaction is one thing. Starting over with someone who basically replaces a spouse when that person is not yet really gone to the whole family is another. The last thing this family needs is more loss and pain and open wounds.
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I think I can understand how ssb1971 feels, and her dad too. While I can understand her dad's need for connection, even a relationship, comfort and yes, sex (I am making no moral statement here, just saying I can understand) it seems that choosing a person who was in their family home, taking care of his wife and his children's mother, is a bad choice. I know for a fact when people are emotionally tapped out they make bad choices often, which is exactly why probably he should not have begun this relationship. He is 'reacting' and so are his and his still living wife's adult kids. But hopefully it is not too late; he can tell this woman that he is not in a position to begin a new relationship. He and his kids can and should seek some counseling to reopen lines of communication so they can talk this through, understand and empathize with each other and rebuild their trust and love for each other. People are like empty pitchers; when there is nothing in it, there is nothing left to pour out. They need to be 'refilled' and often a relationship with the wrong, or prematurely wrong person is the direction they go. Living out the loss of mother and wife together as husband and father with his kids will help heal all of them. Casually seeing someone of the opposite sex and quietly, privately enjoying some company and social interaction is one thing. Starting over with someone who basically replaces a spouse when that person is not yet really gone to the whole family is another. The last thing this family needs is more loss and pain and open wounds.
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I should add, despite the divorce, I generally go see my ex-wife weekly, and her sisters visit most weeks also. We kind of spread it out through the week. Our kids visit less occasionally. And we take her to family functions (Thanksgiving, New Years, etc.). I could visit daily, but I don't think it would add much. In essence, she is cared for now by someone other than me and I no longer have that role. She can benefit from my friendly love, but not my intimate love. Someone else can. And that tells me to move that phase of my being and life to someone else. And I'm also certain that my wife supports that decision.
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It's not easy, but it is possible to love someone without getting "feedback". My cousin, after his wife of many years was placed in a nursing home, went there every day and fed her meals, and talked to her. (I had two other friends who did the same thing.) We really don't know how much awareness there is there, but I recently read a report on brain activity tests on people with dementias, and they found that there were responses in the brain even at times that the patient couldn't express anything. They concentrated on the person that they knew, not what they saw. In all three of these cases, the hospital/nh staffers were blessed by seeing these good men loving under incredibly difficult circumstances, as were their friends and families. My husband was only unresponsive for a short period before he passed ten years ago, and the nurses told me to talk to him, as even apparently unresponsive people are more aware than we can see.
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An update from me who was going to wait 18 months. Actually, I completed a divorce 12 months later. I am terribly grateful to her sister, who stepped up to take over as guardian, so that I could divorce. For 3070nofilter who missed being with a man, it was the same for me. I miss close companionship with a woman. But also realized I was not really available fully to a woman I admire and want to be with, if I'm still married. I need to demonstrate my openness to commitment by divorcing first and truly being available. I discussed it with my wife on a highly functional day and she was very supportive. I've since had a relationship and will report that lots of strange emotions, anxieties and feelings came out that I wasn't expecting, relating to shifting my allegiance to this new person. It was not smooth by any means. I will also warn that I wasn't as healthy as I wanted to be to assess my relationship's compatibility as a spouse and ended the relationship over doubts that I had. I still felt like I had more to do on myself to be more secure before committing fully to someone. But I don't regret divorcing. I made a point of seeing as many people that attended our wedding as I could to personally give them the news and explain my reasoning. Many said they couldn't judge, but trusted my love and my heart to be doing the right thing. That trust in me was really humbling. Hopefully this adds a little more to a really tough topic that its good to have discussed.
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This is tricky. I would have no moral or religious problems, but many friends and family could be upset by some sort of affair. But then again its really none of there business. Key words, discretion and good judgement.
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ssb1971, you would accept this more if he left her or they divorced? Yes, I suppose that would be a more "conventional" sequence of events. Maybe it would remove the stigma of adultery from your eyes.

But doing it that way would have been far, far more hurtful to your mother. I personally think that it would be a more rotten thing to do to cause poor confused Mother more pain and heartbreak by insisting on an official divorce. Obviously this action is not a rejection by your father of your mother. This is something in addition to his devotion to his wife and his attempts to look out for her welfare. If this woman was her caregiver for a while it probably seems natural to Mother that she would continue an interest in her care.

To me it is far more important to preserve Mother's dignity and comfort than for Dad to maintain some kind of a conventional reputation.

Everyone in this family is going through some serious mourning. You are losing your dear mother, bit by bit. And it sounds like you are worried about losing your father, too, as he now shares his attention another woman and her children. This is understandably a very difficult time for you. Is Dad betraying Mum? In what way? Does she feel betrayed? Is she sad about this development? Is Dad neglecting her? Withholding financial support? I suspect that if the rest of the family can accept the situation it must not be an obvious betrayal.

I hope that you and your brother can reserve judgment until you are less emotionally fragile. Of course you are hurting dreadfully right now. Father's actions may seem like a logical target for your hurt and bad feelings. But the dementia would be progressing no matter what. The outcome will be the same whether Father keeps to himself or reaches out to other companionship.

Would I have considered an affair while my husband had dementia? I can't honestly say. I was always too busy and too tired to even think about it!
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I am going through a similar experience. But it is my dad who has found a new relationship whilst my mum is in a home with dementia. My mum and dad are both only 62 so relatively young. The carer who came to them whilst mum was still at home, be it a family member, my uncles niece to be precise, only related by marriage is the person who dad started an 'affair' with. The odd thing is that mum was always included in plans when she was at home, whether it be going to the pub or over to the woman's house for dinner. Myself and my brother feel as the woman has taken advantage of a vulnerable situation as she was desperate for a relationship. Now mum is in a home and has been for 3 months he has started going on holiday with this woman and always goes to visits mum with her. I try to be understanding but feel as though it should have been kept separate from my mum and can't bear to see them together. He has started getting very close to her children too, she has 3 and 2 are still at home and spends a lot more time with them then he does his only grandson, my son. The worse bit is that all the family are accepting of it but me and my brother understandably feel that it's a betrayal to mum. Would understand it a lot more if he left her or they had got divorced. Would appreciate any comments from a daughter or son in a similar situation.
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Exactly! Thank you. Frustrated2.
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I believe this is between you and God. You don't have to answer to anyone else. Walk a mile in someone's shoes before you try to say what they should do.
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I am experiencing this same issue. My husband is in the last stages of Alz. He is 68 years old and I am 57. We've been married for 30 years. The last ten years have been the most difficult years of my entire life. I have him in a really good facility with around the clock caregivers. I am with him for three hours every morning. In the last two months I have realized that I have already lost him. He is just physically there. I'm so lonely. I have my close girlfriends, but they have their husbands and families. They do what they can to keep me busy but the emptiness night after night is really turning into more depression. I did join a gym and have really enjoyed taking care of me, physically. I just miss companionship with a man. I miss being made to feel special. I feel that no one has the right to pass judgement on us that have lived through this disease and realize that we are about to reach a milestone in our life where our life is actually starting over on so many levels. Every case is different. Every caregiving spouse is different. I truly feel absolutely no guilt in wanting to meet someone and just enjoy having fun with another man without the stress, sadness, and hardships that I've had for so long now. Seriously! Do not judge!
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Would any of us who have all of our mental faculties and a deep love for a partner or spouse condemn that person to never again experience love and intimacy that a partner can provide? My fiancé is a kind and gentle man, who takes care of his AZ mother, but I know is made stronger by the love and support of our partnership. I would hope that if I were to have this same sad condition, that he could find love and support in whatever way he needed. Why would I want to deny him of that happiness that I could no longer provide?
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I appreciate your honesty and your choices. " I found out, I'm not healthy enough, nor actually available, for a new relationship ... I want to be fully available to commit to her and healthy enough to be a secure, repaired, separate person. I'm not a player and don't want to be -- and am still faithful to my wife."

You can't do better than being friends with people. A friendship tops a partial/lopsided relationship.

I think what you decide in 18 months will not just depend on your wife's condition, but on yours too, or you would have made a different decision now.
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After my wife was placed in an adult family home I decided to date for friendship and even to be unfaithful - as intimate relations had ended 4-5 years ago. My reasoning, which I believe, is that she wouldn't want me suspended, and I know I wouldn't want her to be. Trouble is I found out, I'm not healthy enough, nor actually available, for a new relationship. If I being honest, my old brain either wants sex or a codependent savior; no matter I consciously tell myself. Its different for everyone, but I'm actually seeking a new partner; and when I do so, I want to be fully available to commit to her and healthy enough to be a secure, repaired, separate person. I'm not a player and don't want to be -- and am still faithful to my wife. Its really tempting to want the hole filled and a mate through the suspension phase. I've put my ring back on and stopped dating. I've decided to direct my love of life in this phase to other areas and drop the self-pity. I'm going to start therapy and see if I can't be a non-romantic friend to women around me. Then wait 18 months to reassess. I don't know what I'll decide at that point - it will depend on my wife's condition. And to all the judges in these comments - judge a situation you've never experienced to your peril.
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