What type of sleep aid can I use for my mom with dementia who's having trouble sleeping?

Read nearly all of your posts, have more to go. The thing that jumps out at you while reading is that we NEED some help. We're doing all this work, not taxing the system, keeping our Beloved at home, but this is HARD. Have Hospice now ten days for my 96 year old dad who has been sleepless and moaning all night long. Nurse suggested he may be constipated and with a gloved, manual check, she confirmed and used a suppository. Never thought if it because he was producing, but not commensurate with what he was eating throughout the day. He has his legs drawn up, not sitting up, and yells in pain if I try to unravel him. So late night yesterday, I thought....heating pad...ohmigosh what was I thinking.
I had it lightest setting and had my hand resting there to make sure that it was not too hot. Well, with the gurgles produced, I could tell it was like a garden hose with a kink in it, and it just got relieved. This morning was better, slept for three hours, and Nurse came with her insights, her work uhhhh, paid off. Without physically moving around or sitting home, the fecal material is just
not being pushed along. We judged that was his moaning, he felt pain and couldn't suppress the sound of distress. The sleep aid recommended with a call to the doctor was sent, I just looked up on Wiki. It is not recommended for dementia patients. Oh, and that was two hours ago,and it's not working either. Will try the suggestion given on this board for children's cherry benedryl. Will also alternate with magnesium caps which work for me. I must say though, my experience with any and everything, nothing works after Day Three. Nothing. Have had luck with Tart Cherry juice for myself and the dad, earlier in this process when he was up and about. Regular cherry juice doesn't work, and hold on to your hat ...this stuff is tart, and expensive, but a little goes long way, I use it in ginger ale, not too much, counter productive, caffeine and all. Never gave him melatonin. I don't use it anymore, but it never put me to sleep, but I slept more soundly with pleasant dreams. Where is medical marijuana? The substance works on inflammation, it is inexpensive by comparison to prescription drugs. It is nature's way....where is it? Living in Maryland, I can tell you where ours is....it's stuck in committee. The law was passed four years ago. What was to have been summer has turned into 2018. They say they don't have enough in production as yet. Yeahright. What it is really is that not enough thumbs are on the scale, they need more time. So, short of moving to CO or CA, we don't know if these harmless tinctures and oils work for dementia patients when nothing else seems to. The hemp oil can be sold legally in this state and would probably work. What's happening here is....we 'age out' of this problem. Eventually the patient meets The Happy Reaper and former caregivers are out of work and too tired to look back. We have to do better. The paucity of medical assistive devices is shocking. No tools. No patient lifts...there should be a simple side-bed pullout. Roll the patient on the inflatable, roll him or her back when the bed is changed. Rooms should have a garden hammock for those nights when you need to be close by. All hospital beds should have overhead triangles so the patient exercises to keep upper body strength. Where are these things? A hospital bed with something like an overturned playpen, soft protective edges and netting and a bell so he or she can alert you, but the wandering patient stays put for a few hours. Anyone wishing a self inflating mattress to put near the bed to make for a happy landing....look to Houzz App on their Shop link. I got a good single bed reversible mattress there, excellent price, made in the USA. Oh, and here's a suggestion....there are, for your iPad, wwwwwonderful long running sleep videos. One is a train ride, it runs for ten hours....you could embellish the experience by packing a lunch and saying 'don't forget your sweater'. Train rides might cure dementia all by themselves. Readers....This board is great, but we have to demand some changes. We don't have the tools needed...the items might be in a sports and camping store and a toy store or a tool store, but what we need is not in a medical supply store. Oh, here's some innovation....sheets with Velcro tabs. A 'draw sheet' with soft handles to go beneath the patient. Rocket science?

Hi my husband also had a lot of anxiety mind never shut down. The daycare center was suggested to talk to doctor as they were having a time with him.. wandering never sitting still etc etc I had him in melatonin in order to get some sleep. Finally the doctor gave him Seroquel 1 in morning and 2 at night.. the center has seen a great improvement in him and he gets up two times to go to bathroom and. Back to sleep this also helps me out getting more sleep than in the past I hope this will help someone to talk to their doctors on what is happening so you too get your rest 🙃

My mother's neurologist suggested over the counter Melatonin 3mg or 5mg. It's very inexpensive.

Have you had her checked for a UTI!

gladimhere -- thanks for your response -- she has been on several different types of meds -- all having the same affect - all worse agitation and confusion! Serequel was the only one that seemed to work better than the others. We give it to her after dinner because it seems to work better -- I have to crush pills as mom will spit out any pill you give her. This is the only medication she is on. I stopped all her other COPD meds a year ago. Her Dr is a geriatric Dr! I am fortunate because I have 24/7 care for her, but still find that I need to go down and intervene if she is giving caregivers a hard time. At 93 she is still feisty and will give them trouble when they are washing her or brushing her teeth.

Sounds like Seroquel is having completely the opposite effect as intended. This happened to my mom with Ativan. So, time to see the doc, find s different one, a geriatric specialist. There are geriatric practices that make house calls. Have her evaluated for hospice? You should be able to find someone that will come into the home

If her doc is a geriatric specialist, consider writing a letter expressing your dissatisfaction. I did this once with mom's doc. He actually thanked me for giving him a kick in the butt. After that the doc visits went much better, and my inquiries were responded to.

I have read this entire post. My mom is 93, dementia/alzheimers. She is bedridden -- deaf, and arthritic. Mom's appetite is fine. Constipation is a problem, but giving her stewed prunes, prune juice and sometimes a herbal tea - Smoothie. She on Seriquel -- given at night 3 pills (not near meds so don't remember dosage). Her non-sleeping is beginning to take a toll on all of us. There are times she is so tired she cries but can't close her eyes. Her Dr is worthless and since mom is bedridden I have to rely on home visits. I have been trying to treat with over the counter meds. Her brain seems to be firing on all levels -- It just won't shut down for her to rest. I have just ordered knock out to see if that will work. But gave her 1 pill of over the counter sleep aid for past 2 nights and it seems to have made it worse.

One more suggestion, if they are prone to wandering in the house during the night. Turn off all lighting except areas you feel are safe for them to walk to/ be in.
IE the bathroom, or the tv room/living room.
Keep all other areas as dark as possible because they are less likely to go into dark areas.
In the kitchen, remember to remove stove and oven dial knobs, and unplug toaster ovens etc.
If they are prone to opening cabinets you can use child proofing devices, or we just used rubber bands and twisted them in a figure 8 between cabinet handles. If they have a drawer you feel is 'ok' for them like the tea towels, oven mitt drawer or a cookie/snack drawer, leave that one unencumbered so they will focus on that drawer(s).
Ditto bathroom (make sure all shampoos, cleaning supplies are secure or out of reach) .
Many dementia patients like to have something to hold most of the time, this is where large soft baby dolls, stuffed toys, towels, or lap blankets can help, including a 'bed buddy' doll or soft stuffed toy to sleep with (especially if they love pets, get a large stuffed animal that may remind them of that pet for them to have around them all day and to sleep with at night. The "pet" sleeping with them may help the stay in bed when they wake up in the middle of the night. (pattern behavior - sleeping with the pet, they don't want to disturb the pet, so they stay in bed with the 'pet')

Always work with your GERIATRIC psychiatrist - monthly if possible.
We have used: Trazadone, Serequel, Doxepine, Alprazalam (dissolveables are best), Depakote, all in varying doses. We have used OTC Tyenol PM and similar products, Melatonin, Valarian, and other homeopathic and naturopathic remedies and combinations with varying degrees of success (and failure with one that actually caused a hyperactive effect). Always with approval by the doctor because of all the other medications in use (Alzheimer's, Blood Pressure, and Artery Disease)
You can also try chamomile tea and similar beverages for calming.
Again with the warning that not everything works the same for every
patient, and most things only work for a while because of the constant changes going on in their brains.
We also put battery operated alarms on all the doors, and alarm/double lock doors that go outside. You can make a necklace or bracelet with a few jingle bells on it. We even used a small cat collar with a bell to put on the wrist, or a bigger one to go above the elbow (harder to reach and remove for the patient).
Keeping something they can do by their bed or in their bed may help them from wandering when they wake up. (coloring book, large baby dolls, tea towels to fold, even a child's plastic tool box with colorful tools. What ever you know may catch their attention and interest them).
I like the dutch door idea for their bedroom, I had never thought of that.
Sometimes if they have a favorite snack (something simple like a cookie) by the bed, that is enough to stop them while they enjoy the snack and perhaps settle down again, and you can reinforce this pattern by giving them the same snack as part of their bedtime routine so they associate that snack with the next step which is laying down in bed.
Help create patterns that help you, because many dementia patients can still connect with 'pattern' behavior.
And finally - if they are prone to wander outside the house, many county sheriffs offer a free gps wrist tracker that they (and only them) can use to help find your loved one.
Many fitness tracking bands now include gps - that you can use to track locations, though I do not know if they are as sharp as the precision location of the police gps band (tracks to within a few feet of location).
Both options worth looking into if you have someone that can get out of the house, or can wander off in a nanosecond when you are out and about
like at a dr's apt, taking them shopping etc.
Hope this helps.

Sudafed is not sedating. It is pseudopedrine, a decongestant, not an anti histamine. Be careful.

My wife is on 100 MG of Seroquel and that helps her sleep Plus I can get some sleep too.

Amethyst, I am not happy with the trazadone and my mom isn't either. She says it doesn't work-she does sleep but she is not resting. It also makes her very groggy during the night when she has to get up for the bathroom. She told me today she hated her life like this. I know her anemia has taken a toll on her and I think we are starting to get that under control. I will have to try the Calm Forte. She takes melatonin with the trazadone already-usually 10mg but again she says it doesn't work. Thanks for the response ;)

Kimec4
At first l gave my now 88 yo mom prescribed sleep aids. They only made her more anxious. She would get up at all different times. At times she would walk around aimlessly in her room or take things out of drawers and the closet. Now l switched to a natural sedative call Calm Forte. I purchase it at GNC or Vitamin Shoppe. I give her 1 or 2 and it makes a world of difference. She sleeps all night remaining in her bed. An alternative could be Melatonin..but more than 5 mg seems extreme.

My husband has dementia. I give him his meds (sertraline for moods, donzepil for dementia) through the VA; got a neurologist outside the VA to give him restoril, also I give him 10 mg of melatonin and 2 caps of Aleve PM OTC. I checked with the Dr. before doing all this as it seems like too much to me but its what works to get him to rest in addition to trying to keep him active and awake all day long which is becoming more and more of a challenge.

I would also recommend talking to a doctor. Melatonin is a go-to answer for a lot of people, but chemicals are already different in the brian, I would guess. They could possibly prescribe some sleeping aid. Never give anything without talking to a doctor if there are any other medications in their system.

The doctor put my 85 year old mother on trazadone 50mg and she also will take 10mg of melatonin. Her dementia isn't really bad-mostly forgetting words. She goes to sleep, but then wakes up usually to pee, then can't go back to sleep. She wants Ambien, but after giving it to her a few times I said no way because she still wakes up to pee and is really wobbly. With 2 hip surgeries in the last year, she doesn't need to fall. I really hope the trazadone helps, but I am predicting the doctor having to up it to 100mg

Request that your Mom's assigned Hospice counselor meet with you for ways they can help her relax during the day and sleep at night. When my mom seems agitated and anxious I give her store bought Calm Forte that I get at my local GNC vitamin shop(very inexpensive). Also, a quick mini massage as you or aide places her to bed at night. Some Hospices have therapists assigned to give Hospice Patients too.

Every case if different. All suggestions for day time activities are good.
Here are the variety of things that we have tried, some worked, for a while, some had moderate success, and some had reverse effects. Trial and error. (all have been done under doctor's guidance).
RX Tazadone (worked for a while, then behavior problems)
RX Xanax (dissolvable) works but sometimes causes wetting problems.
RX Diazepam (Valium) (helped, but daytime confusion increased)
OTC
Melatonin (Helped for a while)
Valerian (drops) (caused hyper activity, gave to a friend - great for their dad)
Benedryl (helps some)

No 2 people are the same, with or without dementia. It is a process of trial and try again. Trazodone was the one the worked the best for us for the longest period of time.

Also hot creamy chai tea (decaf)

Another friend suggested zzzyquil, but we have not tried it.

What has worked for us is Children Cherry Benadryl (brand name) works best. We will give a 20ml for an adult doze. This does not seem to intefere with his other meds. He seems to sleep much better. If the person has drainage this will help as well.

(1)For sleeping disorders Mom's UCLA physician does not like sleeping pills because they may fall in the middle of the night. (2) For constipation prune juice may help. (3) Usually i can hear mom from my bedroom her big obsession is toilet paper. (4) Listening for movement is critical sometime she may attempt to retrieve bath towels to use as toilet paper. (5) one person cannot watch anyone 24/7 but if an unusual noise occurs check for bruise, bumps, and anything out of place. (6) In this situation relief caregivers show up 5 days a week inform them each day of current status.

Just a few comments.
Tylenol PM contains the same ingredient as Benedryl. That can cause the mind to be a bit "fuzzy" not great normally but has to be worse if your mind is "fuzzy" to begin with. Also Benedryl can be constipating as well.
If your Mom is using a product to thicken liquids Miralax will thin out the thickened liquid. I had to go to a liquid laxative for my husband.
Milk of Magnesia seems to work well when I need "a little something extra" But I have been getting a Tea called Smooth Move and it seems to work a cup or two a few times a week seems to help. And he is taking a stool softener.
As far as the sleeping ask Hospice. My husband is on Seraquel as well as a low dose of Lorazepam. When I get worried and need "the big guns" I go for a bottle of Magnesium Citrate. Works well, can be thickened and it comes in flavors.
I used Melatonin for a while for my husband and that worked until he indicated he wanted the light left on, exposure to light I was told negates the effect of Melatonnin.

My huband had LBD Lewy Body Dementia. To help him, his neurologist prescribed one half of a Leponex before sleep... Which was very efficient for him.
(This medicine is usually prescribed for schizophrenia).

I fear you have some signs of a burn-out. I would recommend you to ask for some help very quickly :
- 1) For you : to your General Practitioner,
- 2) For your mum : to her neurologist (prescriptions for medicine to take before going to sleep as well as for a period of respite care in a specialized place),
- 3) For your Grandson : to a help, at least a few hours per day,
This, in order to allow you to have proper nights and rests in the daytime.
Burns-outs are very dangerous for you and for your beloved ones.
I hope you will find some help very soon. Please let me know.

I have had trouble often getting Christy to go sleep, stay asleep all night. You would think that after 6 years I would be smarter. Christy has no cognition. She is agitated and is on her feet all day. Occasionally we get her to sit, mainly to let me rest. One day she began crying, big tears, broke my heart, but she can't communicate. It turned out that she had soiled her disposables while sitting. Usually she is standing and I quickly clean her so this was new to her and she was embarrassed. I didn't know she was capable of being embarrassed.
Then I began to noticed that when she is reluctant to sleep or wakes in the night, she has to pee. I was fooled because I take her to pee and she sits for a long time without doing it, then sometime she will pee a gusher within a few minutes of a previous gusher. Last nigh was a good example. Surely she didn't have to pee again so soon, but after she drove me crazy for quite a while, I took her to pee and she did. Also I was feeling just a bit hungry, so I figured she may be also.
We had a filling meal 2 hours before, so I didn't think we should be hungry. We shared a big bowl of hot oatmeal and she went right to sleep. Still learning about her world.

My mom was diagnosed with moderate dementia, but mostly she just can't find words for things or she confuses me with my oldest sister. She also has AFIB and it makes her so tired and makes her think she can't breathe, which mostly happens at night. I have periodically given her 1/2 ambien (5mg) and it helps her sleep at night, but the doctor is pretty anti ambien for her for fear of falling (she has had 2 hip surgeries in the last 6 months)-and I get that. I am not giving it to her anymore as he has increased her metoprolol to help with the AFIB. She does take melatonin-10mg and the doctor is OK with that. If she wakes up during the night I tell her to take another 5mg, but she generally just gets up and moves to her recliner and sits the rest of the night and naps. But it's difficult to see her after a few days with crappy sleep-she is lethargic and I think it exasperates her dementia. My dad also lives with me and is 90-he's got COPD and heart issues, but is sharp as a tack. My mom is 85. They have been with us now for about 8 months.

My mom's doctor recommended 3mg of melatonin. She's been taking that for three years, along with her other meds for memory and hallucinations.

My suggestion would be some Melatonin, a very small dose, like 10mg or less. However, it would be advisable to discuss & talk it over with her doctor.

We never smoked or drank. MJ was the last thing we would consider. Pharma drugs did not work and/or had negative side effects. We had tried a glass of wine and that demonstrated the possibility. She had been non-communicating for a couple years and angry all the time. She would sleep a couple hours then up a couple hours. The wine made her communicate, remember us, and laugh at stories. It was difficult enough to get her to drink anything and we did not want the alcohol side affects so wine was not a permanent solution.
She only has one kidney. A friend recommended MJ and I learned to make cannabutter. A postage stamp sized piece 1/8" thick on cracker became the normal dose and like the wine, brought her back into our world. And even better the MJ comfort lasts for several hours at a time. We have noted a healing at times when we knew it was out of her system. Our state allows medical use and we got her a card. We have experimented with different delivery methods and found that candy bars with equal amounts of THC for the brain and CBD for the body is perfect. The dispensary advised that when CBD and THC are use together, the CBD nullifies the psychotropic affect of the THC and causes a better over all calming. That has proven to be true. It is a new science.
The candy bar begins working within a half hour and last for about 4 hours. We discovered a concentrate that doesn't kick in until about 5 hours but lasts about 6 hours.
We put a dot of the concentrate on the piece of candy bar and she is good all day. Learning the dose amount has been an adventure. With either one, after the obvious calming has subsided there is a long time of 'coming down' which is also a calming time. We are seeing a healing with this, also. The calming time possibly allows the brain to rest from the chaos and promote healing.
When she is constipated, the edibles do not work at all so we just tried a different delivery method. She was never a smoker, so that would not be an option. We bought a pipe and some regular smoking MJ. We used one of her old full full face Cpap masks and cut a hose to about a foot. We would take a couple hits from the pipe and blow into the hose. We were concerned that never being a smoker, it might choke her, but she actually accepted it. That delivery is almost instant but only lasts a couple hours.
I still feel a little guilty giving her a feeling she never would have sought in her other life, but she is so much happier, we laugh much, she sleeps through the night.
And we are not dumping chemicals into her system.
It has been 5 years now, and we still can not comprehend the internal chaos that she is dealing with.
We are thankful for the natural relief.

Stirling,
My friend had the same situation, couldn't get her grandparents out of the house. She, herself has a lot of health issues so she went to the MD connected with the cannabis dispensery and told them it was for her. That way she could go pick it up anytime. I don't know if you'd be willing to do that but it was her way out of having to take them out, as they were hard to handle.

My Mom has never done well on any presc. med. When she had to have any surgery, I told them to start with a child's portion first and work from there or they could kill her. She is 95 and physically better than most people in their 50's and 60's. She was officially diagnosed with Dementia/Alzh. this past year. I have gotten Hospice started because she isn't sleeping at night - all of the symptoms or at least the majority of the symptoms others have talked about we are going through. My father would get combative crazy when he had a UTI and I took her into ER a week or so ago and they didn't even look at that - instead found she had bronchitis. Long story short, they gave her a Z- pac antibiotic (5 day) and after a couple days my Mom was back. Come to find out that any infection, not just a UTI can cause the crazies in the elderly. That threw me for a loop - but a good piece of info to retain. Hospice in my mind is good because she is monitored weekly in ways that I can't. My goal is to use as many natural things as possible - but I'm trying different things that Hospice is suggesting - Ativan (she did sleep throught the night, however, she couldn't talk, couldn't recognize things she normally had not problem recognizing and didn't have any strength in her legs to be able to get up from a chair or to walk. I went through transferring my father from bed to potty chair and back and doing all of the transfers. He passed 2 years ago. I no longer have the strength to do that and my Mom is very light compared to my Dad. Another reason I asked for Hospice help. Her legs came back and her ability to recognize things she normally did as soon as I took her off the Ativan. She was only on it for about 3 days. Next they wanted me to try the Haldol and that wasn't too bad - it just took a bit longer but she lost her legs again, so that went bye - bye too. She also communicated to me that she recognized that I was giving her different things and wanted it to stop because she was afraid it might kill her. So I promised her I wouldn't do any of that again. Back to the natural stuff. What seems to work the best is for me to be very into her and spend lots of personal time with her before bed time - she does the 3 questions over and over again formed differently trying to get the answer she wants - I want to go home, Where is my car, Why can't we just get in the car and drive home. I explain every time that she is in her home and she has owned it (along with father) for over 60 years. Her car is parked in the barn and is very safe, no one can steal it. We can't drive her car home because the battery is dead and the home she was raised in no longer exists (torn down) as well it is over a 5 hour drive. She has no concept of time, so my explaining the 60 years and the 5 hour + drive goes right over her head. After the questions I suggest we have some toast and herbal tea and she can take her evening pills with the tea. Tea is Sweet Dreams (Cham/Mint), 6mg of Melatonin, then 1 Tablespoon of organic Coconut Oil and I put about 10 drops of CBD in the coconut oil and she downs that (the coconut oil tastes good). Then I fix a mixture of chocolate chip mint ice cream and a mushed up banana with her food supplements (3 capsules of Inositol and 1 capsule of GABA opened and emptied), mix it all together and she just loves that - a treat. Then off to bed. That so far has worked the best. Yes she wanders the house, opens and shuts the doors to the outside to get fresh air, gets herself to the bathroom with no problems unless her bowels are loose and then she will come find me to help with changing or finding new under wear (pull-up briefs). She has low vision so is hesitant to go outdoors in the dark because of her fear of falling.
I want to learn more about the use of marijuana helping Dementia/Alzh. patients. I have a couple nurse friends who are strongly recommending it for my Mom because of her sensitivity to presc. meds. I found the CBD online and ordered it. I do not know what the percentage of THC is in it - when I ordered I didn't know to ask that question. Michigan laws have a lot of gray area and it is difficult to get any clear answers on how to acquire a MM card. I understand you have to have the right Dr. and some of the places have a Dr. but I would have to take my Mom to a clinic. Taking her away from home in the car and then coming back home can be difficult. Many times she doesn't recognize her house and keeps waiting to go to her home after we get back from somewhere. Another reason I wanted Hospice - she will get very agitated (when we go somewhere) and stay that way for a few days thinking I've taken her to a new place. As long as we stay where we are (our home) she is fine. Or, she refuses to go anywhere - can't leave her house with no one there because someone is going to break in and steal everything - just a 101 excuses as to why she can't go.

Wife has FTD final stage. Acute since 2011. Hellish. Aggressive, resisitive, combative, non communicating, little cognition. She was active all day and slept little at night. She could not attend day care as she beat up the staff. She could not go out in public.
Physicians tried all the common Rx for aggression and sleep. The Rx either did nothing or doubled her over 90 degrees and made her drool. She was still aggressive. She just wandered the house, bumping into walls. And we hated the thought of dumping more chemicals into her, as we are suspecting BP Rx as either cause or severity of the disease.
She gets daily oatmeal with prunes, coconut oil for digestion and brain, honey for antibacterial and lemongrass oil for relaxation (1 drop = 6 mangoes).
Watermelon, because she is stubborn about drinking. We have to hand feed her, usually, but she will feed herself watermelon. We found that cut up watermelon chunks is a great snack if eaten while still a little frozen. Also frozen grapes are the same. We freeze them in quart baggies. We found that both watermelon and grapes become sweeter when frozen.
To get her to drink, we alternate a spoon full of food and a spoon full of water. We use a large spoon.
Meals like chicken and rice, we add a lot of water and make it a soup.
She was often compacted, out of fear of producing stink, so she would always clench.
She was that way as her former self. It is more critical now to encourage production. Frequency, amount and consistency are a topic of celebration daily in this house. We also monitor urine output and are surprised that she can produce a gusher several times per day. It doesn't seem like she inputs that much liquid.
We use a 10 function urinalysis strip and it shows her as half normal hydration, but we live in the desert, so full hydration is difficult even for me.
The test strips also indicate UTI, which had been a problem for years. A UTI will certainly cause night wakening. No UTI's since April 2015.
After 4 years later, an old friend called and suggested something that has worked and now we get a sweetheart most of the time in the day, better communication and often full nights of sleep. We now can tell when she is hungry or needs toilet.
She is grown 2 year old who can't form words or respond, but she can now rattle off a story of jibberish and laugh. We don't know the story but her laugh, makes us laugh. Most hours of the day are no longer hellish and she sleeps 9 PM to 5 AM. On some occasions she will wake to go pee in the middle and it is the greatest miracle, that she knows and can let me know.
We have been giving her an equal THC CBD combination, twice per day. It has been found that the CBD counters the psychotropic affect of the THC. It took over a year to get the right dose and combination, but the results have been consistent for 6 months, now. We often are wide eyed and open mouthed when words we haven't heard in years, happen. I was wiped out of her existence in 2012, but I have been getting unsolicited hugs, lately. We wish we had known 5 years ago.