Adult protective services. How do I protect myself?

bestgardner, If APS got there and you had not scheduled home care yet, they just go by what they see. It is really had to care for someone when you are disabled yourself. With little income now you should be eligible for Medicaid and HUD housing in Tennessee.

Best Gardner you almost certainly need a lawyer. From what you have written it sounds like someone thought you were unable to care for your husband despite your best intentions - OR they inappropriately used your disability as an excuse to take him out of your care. I'm confused by the term "nursing home complaint" if he was at home n your care, though. If you are disabled, can you get an SSI check to live on?

TN Adult Protective Services took my spouse from me, after nursing home complaint. APS called estranged family members from GA, and they took my spouse and put him in a GA nursing home and closed our joint checking account and left me homeless and pennyless and I am disabled. I don't know why, APS never told me anything, and the nursing home never returned my numerous calls, over 2 months asking to see my husband. We were happily married, my husband stopped drinking after we were married, hasn't had any alcohol in 3 years. He attends church, has friends that come and visit, loves the grandchildren. What did I do to ever warrant this kind of punishment and my husband as well.The anguish and heartache I have endured, because I was never allowed to visit or talk to my husband again. I am disabled, but it has not ever stopped me from loving and caring for him. I was scheduling in home health care to come in and bath him and what ever other services we would be needing. I called the 3 assisted living homes in our area, but we could not afford them. I have no record of neglect or abuse, all bills are paid, and could afford in home health care.The estranged family that suddenly showed up and got power of attorney, husband has dementia, don't know how they were able to get that. Took him and put him in a GA nursing home and even though APS has closed case, th family in GA wont let me see or talk to him. PLEASE HELP. Thank you

Boy can I relate. My 90 year old father obviously had mid stage dementia. He calls his family literally 10 to 15 times per day starting at 4 a.m. Our family was estranged and very recently united. (I reunited with dad 9 years ago). They, out of spite, called APS on me (they can no longer take and spend his money since he lives with me.) The lady came once and said we have been cleared. Then out of the blue came back last Tuesday. She demanded to take my father for a ride so that they could talk. When they got back she informed us that dad wants to get back to Pittsburgh, PA. We live in Virginia's Eastern Shore, as far east as you can go in VA. She said that if we don't take him back, she will put him on a bus alone and arrange to have someone meet him. My dad gets sundowners. Since there are many bus transfers between here and there, I know my he would get lost. He confuses the front door and back door of our house.

I'm going to have to get a doctor to send a letter advising against such an action. She has admitted that dad has not been mistreated by us, that in fact, he has been treated very well.

I'm not sure, but I think you, rcuthbertson, and I need an attorney.

AT the beginning stages of this nightmare right now. My mother had requested social security to designate me as her Payee. She admitted she was unable to handle her finances because people kept talking her put of money. She had already been evicted over this. HOWEVER, mom is a serious alcoholic. Whenever she doesn't get her way (when I won't allow her to spend whatever she wants on booze) she gets nasty and has recently started talking to APS. I was keeping financial records to the standards required by social securtity, which is nowhere near what APS is telling her I'm required to have. They are point blank lying. They haven't even bothered talking to me - in fact, when one of my moms friends suggested to the aps worker that they do talk to me about this stuff, the aps worker refused. I have since resigned as per Payee (of course, through social security, as required.). All of my moms finances are back in her control. I gave her a list of what her monthly bills are, and information on how to pay them. Bear in mind, APS was telling her she should become her own payee again....so they can hardly complain that my mom wanted to follow their advice...and I allowed her. I have broken all contact with my mom, and I am not inclined to talk with aps unless an I have legal counsel present. I know I do not have comply with anything they say unless they have a court order. They do not have the right to perform illegal searches. Onlyt a court order can COMPEL me to do anything.

Been there! When my husbands Aunt got sick and was in and out of the hospital we were taking care of her and my MIL at the same time. It was like they were taking turns on being in the hospital. Aunt lived 2 doors down from MIL. MIL had to have 24/7 care but her sister didn't, she was able to use the phone to call us for help and one or the other of us were with her for the better part of the day and get her tucked in at night. I would get calls at 3 or 4 am sometimes and would be there to help her in 3 minutes, and stay with her while hubby stayed with his mother.
At this time all the other family members, one in particular that lives between these two sisters, in fact is the middle sisters husband decided we were trying to kill the Aunt and were abusing my MIL so he called DHR with complaints. What he didn't realize is that during this time that both sisters had home health care workers that came 2 & 3 days a week to check their vitals and help them bathe...etc. When the complaint was made MIL was in rehab and the case worker came to see her, then they met with home health workers and got laughed at when they told the complaint that was made. The case was dropped, they never even came to check the homes.
Come to find out that years previous, MIL who has always loved drama, had lied to the daughter of this complainant saying that she was being held prisoner in her own home. The funny part of this is we didn't even live in the same state as she did when this lie was told.
It might be in any caregivers best interest to ask doctors if home health care is available and if it would be beneficial for your loved one. It not only would give you a break but also someone that can cover your back when these allegations are made.

I am constantly amazed anymore at the ignorance of MD's in dealing with my mother and her condition. I just had one say to me last night, "But when I walked in the room and asked her how she was doing, she said fine, now why would she say that if she is in pain?" I said, "Doctor my mother has dementia, she smiles at every doctor and says she is fine because she is afraid of being put back in the hospital....she would tell you anything if she thought it would keep her out of the hospital!" Now this was talking about my mother who is in pain due to gall stones and does not want to have her gall bladder out.

This is only one instance, I could write a book about how ignorant they are when it comes to the behaviors of dementia and Alzheimer's patients! I feel like we need to crash their meetings/seminars and educate them...oh wait they are on the golf course!

Daxelson,
Everything you said is spot-on...but, even MD's have their faillings, when dealing with elders, dementias, etc.
--even those trained in elder care, often fail to get it right---or maybe they are just overloaded, and aren't paying attention.

Working in nursing homes, people are people--they don't pay attention, are understaffed, the building is poorly laid out to do the work, staff inadequatgely trained to deal properly with demented patients, etc.

Facilities need nannycams, too--REALLY.
Kinda think if they did have these gadgets, staff might be screwing up less, and, elders would be observed in full flower of their behaviors.

Places I worked, had difficulties with all sorts of infractions....
sheets so thin, one could actually read a printed page thru them; lost clothes, laundry equipment broken down more often than not, unable to keep up with clean linens; meds not passed, crash carts not up to date, etc.

Docs at the acute facilities send patients to NH's who should have been kept at the acute hospital, prescribing meds by mouth for elders unable to swallow, telling NH staff the elder was fine moving/feeding themselves, when they were darn near immobile.

NH staff who wear loads of perfumes, trying to camouflage the stench indiginous to NH's, cause breathing problems in patients, staff and visitors.
The same staff over-use disinfecting and room deoderizing sprays, causing similar problems.
Management too often fails to back their nursing staff, preferring to preserve even poor aid staff, as those do the hardest hands-on work...and it's harder to get adequate nurses aides to do those jobs--people have a hard time lasting very long in those jobs, physically.

Nursing homes and other facilities are about the money. Insurers are about avoiding payouts.
Facilities need to keep beds full, even if they have to fudge on who's qualified to fill those beds in Assisted Living, for instance.
Staffing for Assisted Living is thinner than in the NH's, so even less coverage for actual patient care is there.
The rule of thumb is, the more complicated the care needed, the moer staff is needed....but companies routinely cut boots-on-the-ground staff to cut costs--rarely management, who get paid the most.

It's broken systems that keep trying to do business as usual--things are changing, but it's not happening without plenty struggles. Plenty of people will get hurt, as things try to get better.

Debralee - You are absolutely right on with your call for more professional education! However, the problem goes much deeper - the DHS/SPD may be defined as "professional" in their own minds, but in fact they are mostly laymen who are understaffed, overworked, and have no time or interest to learn. Our many state legislatures (also laymen) have provided unbelievable power and authority to these state government bureaucracies far beyond their level of competence. For example, I have seen SPD's make a determination of competency in the face of m,ultiple MD diagnoses of severe Alzheimer's disease, question late stage AD patients as to whether they wanted to come away with them and use that as an excuse to impound the patient and cruelly denying visitation to wives of over 40 years. This will only be fixed by education of legislators and taking the in-place authority and powers from the existing political structure, and putting it in the hands of true professionals, like MD's etc.

Adult children who are caregivers have it difficult enough. Now they have to document, get nanny cams and do just about anything to cover themselves in case of false accusations of elder abuse. Nursing homes and assisted living communities do not have to go to this extreme. Time to mandate all professionals dealing with elderly who have dementia/alzheimer to be more educated in this condition.

Rosebud....

Many pundits for hundreds or thousands of years, who have commented how weird people are--give people difficult circumstances, and they just get weirder!
"There's no one stranger than folks!"

MAYBE since Mom has mental health/dementia issues, and shown behaviors that might be unsafe in a private home [much less brother's filthy frat/dorm/bachelor pad], MAYBE it's time to turn her over to STATE supervision/custody for her protection?
That could avoid contention between siblings, and get Mom's needs met.

Do you have pictures of your brother's place that show she was removed for her safety?
You have reasons you are no longer able to reasonably care for her at your place [financial and/or health]?
If brother is in control of her finances, yet you are expected to care for her under your roof...AND he is not providing adequate money towards that....WHAT!?!?!!

Did you provide itemized financial documentation that showed where money is spent , under your roof, for Mom's care [housing, help, supplies, food, medicine, transportation, your time, cleaning, laundry, security, etc.??] when presenting your case to Social Services before, to substantae that brother is not doing what's needed?
[[anyone can make up double-ledgers, to "prove" they are doing right finances...it does not make them right--only, that he's not yet been caught yet]]
HAVE you already tried sending ALL Mom's bills directly to brother to get them paid?
If he's the financial POA of mom's estate, ALL billings need sent directly to him to get paid...--AND-- you keep records of all that, that is, do what you can to have providers keep you informed whether and how he pays Mom's bills.

THOSE are the kinds of things where Social Services MIGHT start seeing problems, if bills get presented to him, and they are not paid.
They are not likely to go digging to learn if he's buying a fishing boat with Mom's money, or making his own house payments with Mom's money, unless they have good reason to.

Mom's bills for her care and upkeep INCLUDE: bills for a -portion- of rent, utililties, etc. for Mom, that you norrmaly pay for yourself if you lived alone....
Mom is part of your hosuehold, and it is reasonable and realistic that part of all those basic bills are paid for by her finances....unless Mom is destitute....and even if an elder is destitute, STILL make bills up, keep track of finances used on behalf of the elder under your roof, so YOU have accountings that can be showed to officials to prive you have been doing due diligence.
Basic bills are "overhead"--which would need paid no matter where Mom lived...home or facility. Only, facilities cost vastly more than your home...usually.

NOTE: A confused elder needs to be in, maybe an "Alzheimer's care unit" or "Memory-care" unit, to keep her from wandering away, keep her safe.
If a family member is behaving like he's gonna obstruct that, it could be considered elder-endangerment.

While Facilities [including the largest elder care provider in the cuontry--documented] frequently try to keep numbers and income going by admitting confused elders into "Assisted Living", Assisted Living facilities are NOT--repeat NOT appropriate-- places for elders with confusion/dementia/alzheimer's.
BEWARE facility staff/management who try to tell families their assisted living units are safe for confused elders!
While at inor levels they might be safe, the basic rules governing elder care object to placing confused elders in "assisted living".

When an elder wanders, cannot keep track of their own meds, forgets to eat, cannot take proper care of food items, etc. confusion, they need to be in special Care Unit--a place with locks to prevnt them getting loose and getting lost or hit by a truck or lost inbad weather, and staff actually, realistically TRAINED to care for demented elders.

You need to have brother's intenions of threatening your putting Mom into a proper facility, in writing, along with some proof [like photos of his messy place?] that his place is inadequate, and, that you can't do it anymore, since he limits finances for her care, and she's gotten out and wandered.
And have a Doc's statement that Mom is confused and needs to be in a proper care facility for her safety.
A proper confused elder care facility would be most happy to admit especially an elder with income that can afford them keeping her there.
[[that's why so many "assisted living" places run by the likes of ProPublica ---please see: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/life-and-death-in-assisted-living/ for a sense of how things get run for profit...]]

Maybe once you have better documentation in hand, then try contacting Social Services to ask how to proceed to help Mom best.
Mom could become ward of the State, or, a third-party POA could take charge, who actually had Mom's best interests in mind.

Of course, I don't know the whole story but if your mom receives SS and he will not turn over that $$ you can report him to the SS administration which is a lot cheaper than an attorney ....if she ever runs out of $$ and you need to apply for medicaid they will want to use all of her income (share of cost) except for a small amount ($35 in my mother's case) that she would be allowed to keep.

Everyone else has shared their information and experiences so I have only one thing to add. In this case and others where a caregiver suspects another family member has financial control is diverting the loved ones finances for their personal use. Also applies when family members or others suspect the caregiver to be diverting money illegally. The suspect can be reported to the IRS for undeclared income. You do need to provide some evidence these days before they will investigate, but that would give brother something to think about. I think you can remain anonymous. It sounds as though quite a large amount of money may have been and still is being misappropriated. Don't know if criminal intent could be proved. Even if he says mom gave it to him he still needs to declare it. bottom line you are providing the care, mom has money, she is not paying her own expenses.
Madeaa I agree caregiving is learned the old fashioned way but a little education can make the task much easier. Support is essential but if Mom broke her hip and just wet the bed for the first time, support won't get the sheets changed. Knowledge will get the job done

Rosebud58: What is that saying about the "tail wagging the dog?" Sounds like your brother is pulling the strings and there should be a way for you to get around him. Do you have any documentation on what your Mom brings in monthly as income? If you know she is getting $4,500 a month in SS and then even more from a pension plan it seems to me that you could say, "Look brother, Mom is getting X number of dollars a month and her home is going to cost X number of dollars and therefore there is plenty of money and if you give me a hard time I will hire an attorney next time to take you to task over what you are spending of Mom's money.

What other expenses could she possibly have other than medical at this stage, unless she still has a home or rental property etc. I just don't see how he can justify spending her money and how does HE determine how much money you need, what if you need the nurse more often?

It is sad that it all comes down to the fighting like this when our parents become ill and pass away. I have heard so many people say, "When my parent dies I do not EVER want to see my siblings again!" I thought I was the only who felt that way, at least about one of them.

My mom pulled the same crap...once. It was within the first couple years I was her care giver and she was still ok mentally, and could still get around. She flew into a rage one day, what else is new, because I wasn't bowing on command to some stupid demand of hers. She hurled a glass ashtray at my face. It hit me in the corner of my left eye. Had I not been fast enough and whipped my face to the side, no doubt I'd be blind in that eye today. I picked that bad boy up, aimed at the cabinet right above her head, hurled it right back, and it shattered and glass went everywhere. Scared the crap out of her, which still gives me a satisfying giggle even now. She went the hell off, talking to ME about how I was 'abusing' her. She called SS. Two days later the lady came over, asking questions about the incident. I said, 'You see this?', and pointed at my BLACK EYE. She said yes. I said my mom threw the ashtray first and connected. I threw it back and missed on purpose. Who was abusing who? I told her my mom was lucky she wasn't in jail for assault. End of SS problems.

I told my mom that if she ever ASSAULTED me again, I'd see her in jail, and I was evil when I said it, and meant every word. I also had to remind her that she was now on a down hill slide, and was getting weaker by the day, and that I was strong and young, and well, she had a lot of serious health issues. No one would question her early demise, not with all those health problems. End of physical abuse from that day forward.

Don't be scared. Tell these people who, and what, you deal with. They'll get it. My question to you is this...how do YOU protect yourself from your MOTHER? SS is the least of your worries from where I'm sitting..

Wow, it continues to amaze me at how bizarre this whole scenario is with all of us home health care givers. Just when you thought you've heard it all, some other outrageous circumstance gets described by someone else, & I'm continually dumbfounded. I have shared dozens of the same kinds of problems as others, while taking care of my 81 year old late state dementia with a dual psychiatric diagnosis for the last 4 months. We do have a CNA helping for several days a week, but it's clearly not enough. My brother is POA (I am her health care POA) and lives in another state. She was living with him until her health declined and I took her to my house, to rescue her from what was apparently a totally horrendous situation in his pigsty bachelor frat house, looking uncleaned in years. (I had not been to his house before.) He is a devious weasel and I know he's skimming off her 4500 a month direct deposit of her SS and her trust fund payment from my late stepfather. We've been arguing about that, he ignores the question, or comes up with some bs about 'extra expenses' and apparently must be considering this whole thing a free for all for him, moneywise. Where is the watchdog? I contacted APS here in my state and they conducted an investigation involving him sending them bills, paperwork, etc. that they requested. At the end of it, (3 months later) they came back to me and said "we can't find any inconsistencies." WHAT????????? So he's scammed them as well! I can't afford hundreds for legal help. Last night he said "if you don't stop all this bs about the money I'm gonna report you to APS for not taking care of my mother properly." WHAT???????????? He's always been a pathological liar and sociopath, and frankly I don't trust him one bit. But I'm totally dependent on him to send funds to support my mom, based on what HE'S decided he gonna send! Yesterday after the APS threat, I finally decided THIS IS IT, THE LAST STRAW, I'M DONE WITH ALL THIS STRESS & even though I don't want to "place" her, amazingly found a bed in a very nice nh in my town (I have no car to visit any distance) and told him about it. He said he's not allowing her to go there because it's too expensive (I KNOW the funds are available!) and that he wants her to go to a cheaper, mediocre AL that I wouldn't EVER consider putting her in! So we're at a standstill because he has the pursestrings~ and guess who's left in the lurch? This weekend was the second time she tried to leave the house on her own, so now I'm terrified, & have finally come to the realization that I can't do this anymore. It's too unsafe. When I told him about her leaving he said, "see? you're not taking proper care of her." WHAT????????? I feel like I'm losing my own sanity.

Raven,

I agree---it's gotten so bad, there's hardly enough of anyone left over, to be human beings! Paperwork is horrendous, in any professional job, or home care-taking--causes so much more stress....laws don't help as much as they hinder---until they suddenly do a great job of protecting us.

If it makes you feel even a tiny bit more secure...
IF APS got involved, they would also have a look at the accuser's capability of handling a POA--"next in line" is fairly meaningless, if there's so much family contention.
IF there's too much family dysfunction, Social Services, or you, can direct them to set Mom up with a "disinterested 3rd party" POA---usually these get paid to be such---people whose job this is--to totally remove it from bickering/warring family members. Family members can work -with- an appointed POA, but cannot have the POA themselves.

They've already started a file about your sister, your Mom, and you, I think, from what you've said already.
To prevent missing anything, they would likely err on side of caution, and give some credence to ALL sides' accusations--she said, she said, mom said, cops said, other witnesses said, etc.

MAYBE, if you preempted the problem child, by requesting, or at least asking about, some outside person to be the POA, to learn what an appointed outside POA can do to work with the caregiver.....to remove that from the equation where your sister is concerned.....particularly IF she's covering up some of her maneuvers to take control----your doing something like that, could totally trump her efforts.

Daxelson: Yes all of this would be helpful if needed. It strikes me as being such a sad state of affairs that we give everything to care for our loved ones and yet we have to worry about covering our behinds every which way, just to make sure that no one falsely accuses us of abuse or misconduct. I feel like all of this makes my job almost 100% harder, I know mentally it is probably a 1000% harder because I have a person in my house who has falsely accused me and would like to hurt me any way she can. She has no regard for my mother and how it would affect her if I was made to leave, she just knows she is next in line to take over POA and that is all she cares about.

Raven1 - We all should have mentioned recordings of voice and phone - of patient, investigators, etc. - All this info will be important to the defense.

Daxelson: Thank you for mentioning photos...of the environment and patient. Something else to use that I had not thought of .

For Ismiami, I totally agree with your very last sentence. As for the rest, you are very fortunate to live in an area such as you describe. Take a look at the other 49 states and I am sure you will find a very different perspective. The rest of the world sees APS as being power hungry and desperate to increase felony charges and convictions if possible. Their job security and success probably depends on attacking caregivers (particularly family caregivers) to the maximum extent whether based on false allegations or not. The good records, and photos of the environment as well as photos of the accuser will be absolutely necesssary for the anticipated criminal defense.

APS folks have seen it all. They are real human beings who themselves have elderly parents and relatives......so do not be overly worried.
The State has no desire to increase their number of wards.
As long as you show a diagnosis and the inspector sees a clean environment with a patient that is not malnourished and whose medical care is followed, you should be fine.
Your mom is not the first to make false accusations.

No sense reasoning with your mom, she has a condition that precludes it.

Sylvial,

You have encountered some bad medicine. You are right--too many medical and nursing staff, despite some or even more education in the care of dementia'd elders, cannot cope with it, either.
AND, laws prevent or hobble use of various ways of helping deal with dementia'd elders, even as a last resort.

Problem is, large portions of population are reaching this state of affairs.

We need reforms in laws governing how meds and other things can be used to help with dementias, at least as last resort measures.
We need -really good- education for professional caregivers--and make sure they really get it.
We need far better methods of determining dementia, and responding appropriately to it.
Difficulties with it are related to failure to get them diagnosed adequately, inappropriately treating them, not treating them; poor, inadequate, inappropriate placement; etc.
It's devolved into a game of "hot potato"--each facility or caregiver trying desperately to NOT get left holding the bag--due to inability to deal with the dementia behaviors, or, not wanting to take in a patient who has no funds to pay.
Insurance has hog-tied and hobbled care for many elders, as well as for just about everyone. What the insurance industry has done to medicine [and far too many other sectors of everyone's lives], is heinous.

End results are: too many families left dealing with dementia'd elders they are ill-equipped to manage. Home care helpers are mostly not covered by insurance--insurers still believe it's cheaper to centralize people, rather than help individuals stay put in home with more helps. Families lose jobs, lose their own sanity, lose their health, due to caring for advanced-dementia'd elders--creating ripple-effect costs never counted nor covered.
IF the bean-counters ever really counted the far-reaching costs of leaving families to handle elders without help, at home, they'd soon see it cost less to do in-home extra care staff, than it costs to run nursing homes.
Extra help at home, could allow families to keep working and functional and contributing!

It should be a criminal offense for Systems to leave multiple disabled persons caring for each other, while allowing mentally ill aggressive persons to create havoc and further trauma upon them.

Raven,

About the only tools we have as caregivers left to hang by multiple Systems, is to keep reporting episodes of trauma committed by elders, or by other mentally dysfunctional others, and keep records of everything to help document what the disruptive person is doing, and/or what the dementia'd elder is doing.

The more reports on record, the greater likelihood of getting realistic help
--either to get the elder into a facility for proper care,
--or, to get disruptive, damaging other persons removed from the home and prevented from coming back--like, maybe, getting restraining orders on them.
That the person lives there, shouldn't be an issue--if they are causing damages, they need removed and prevented from damaging anything or anyone else.

MAYBE, you could start by contacting the local Area Agency on Aging, to ask for advice. They have lawyers who volunteer at those offices, you can make appointments, and bring your list of questions. They can connect you with Social Workers who might help advise.

Just go into it knowing to ask various persons...
each person you contact for help/advice, can have some information others don't. We're all human; it means variations on patience, knowledge, and experience--as well as how well we slept last night!

Oh yea,, end result. my sister went to pick her up because I had to be up at five for work,, she was in her room alone being a fall risk,, next day had to go back to er,, get a referral for specialist, have her knee drained and cortisone shot and enter rehab for at least a month.. All the hospital did that night was dope her up so she didn't feel it and get rid of her..

The sad thing is how many health care workers, aides in nursing homes, are not educated on dementia. I have had nurses call me up and talk crap to me believing my mother's story of us dumping her and stealing her dam dog.. I am taking care of her dog because I have no choice. They know she has dementia but don't understand what that means.. I took my mother to the er one night because she told me her leg was hurting so bad and she couldn't walk.. I watched her knee buckle and she almost fell.. At the hospital the social worker called and woke me up at eleven pm telling me they were going to release her she was walking fine. (failed to tell me they gave her a strong pain med iv) I told her she wasn't safe at home tonight being a fall risk she needed to go to rehab. she then told me if I wasn't going to pick her up she was calling aps.. I told her I agree aps should be called ON HER!!! Bottom line just like there isn't enough research done on alzheimers, there is not enough education on dementia for health care workers.. Good luck with your situation.

Chimonger: It would be nice to know IF I could have her removed from the house for what she is doing. She is deterring me from being a great caregiver to my Mom because of her actions and false accusations.

Chimonger: A couple therapists have told me that she has entered the mental illness arena to continue to do the things she does and it is based on sibling rivalry. What is sad it that we could have had a good relationship and she has chosen to make it pure hell.

Her son told my younger sister and I a couple of years ago when we went to see him, that he no longer considered her to be his mother and he now considers his step Mom his mother. He calls my sister by her first name and his step mother "Mom" when speaking. He told us she was a "toxic person that he did not want to associate with." Unfortunately he doesn't associate with any of us since he does not wish to see her. He was very surprised and happy to see us but he has been brainwashed by my sister since his birth, thank God he got away!

He daughter basically ran to the East coast a year ago to escape her. I think she sees her mother becoming more frail and decided to run for it before she was tied to caring for her!

She returned to our home after a couple weeks absence and my daughter this evening confided in me that she was trying to get very chummy with her and had my daughter trying to help her with her phone. My daughter saw something on her phone that disturbed her and she came in to tell me to watch out, that she felt she was getting ready to go to APS against me again. It seems that EVIL and LIARS never sleep!

Wow...Raven,
It still sounds to me as if your troublesome sister is:
A] mental in some complicated ways, &/or,
B] deliberately trying to keep you jerked around and off-balance, to keep you from looking too close at what she's doing.
Heaven only knows what she could be up to--she could be claiming Mom and maybe even you, as dependents on her taxes; taking money; filing false documents relative to taking full ownership of the house; ANYthing.
But I don't know how crafty she might be...
there are some really twisted people who are that smart, even though really mental. And some really disturbed folks who cannot figure their own checkbooks.

My Mom would rage and get all kinds of inappropriate....but when social workers came to the house, she acted like a sweet, innocent lamb, according to her, nothing was wrong, and she acted shocked that I would tell anyone stories of her behaviors like that.
Then turn right around, as soon as they left, and rabble-rouse to relatives, telling them all sorts of lies--which, they believed hook-line and sinker, because she always limited how much contact she had with most folks, so they rarely, if ever saw her rages and machinations.
She's alawys been REAL good at mixing in plenty of truth, laced with lies, so it's real hard to tell the difference. .

I wonder if there's some way you could finally get the troublesome sis out of the house?
If there are enough reports of her behaviors, might social services or police be motivated to get her outta there, because she's endangering your Mom and you both?
Her behavior is elder abuse and disabled abuse.
Guessing there needs enuf track records of it to get systems to act on it.

VERY good you put your foot down, to block her taking your car...who knows? she could have had it disappeared/stolen, and got the proceeds from that...you'd be dependent on her for transport then, and out a car.
But she may not have thot that out very well.

Kaiser Permanente? [guessing]
Yeah--HMOs can be amazingly helpful, and other times, really bad.
But they're usually good at keeping records on people with issues.
That's documents that can be subpoenaed, by Social Workers called to protect you. Just add those records to the police reports when you call 911 to report her behavior. And your diaries/calendars.
Just don't let her at your records you are keeping--ever.

Your Mom is likely so tired from her behaviors, she cannot deal with it, and kinda shuts down from that when sis is out of the house.
Sis's behaviors are also damaging to any minor children who experience it--if she's calling protective services on you, or even threatening to, maybe you need to pick up the phone and call CPS on her for demonstrating violent, abusive language and behaviors where kids can be affected by them.... just sayin'. Possibles.

Start looking into what she might be trying to get away with.
The madder she gets when you refuse her something--like your car--the more suspect it is she's up to something.
Or that could just be some really narcissistic behavior.

Your daughter needs respite from that stuff, too...bet she will be really glad to get away more, after graduation. She needs to learn/experience how real people live...learn some joy, etc. It's hard to do, when one has been exposed to that kind of stuff so long. REALLY needs some counseling helps.

Hope things smooth out, now you are starting to do more things to protect you, and things to empower you. Keep up the good work, setting firm limits on other's use of you and your resources. Guard your resources carefully.

I would suggest you keep a written log of the accusations, dates, times, what she said, etc. and review it with her physician at the next visit -- just so another health professional has a record and they will examine her and confirm her "good health" or lack of abuse signs.

Secondly, as mentioned by earlier posts, keep good records, financial, health, outings, meals, etc. just as if you were a professional paid caregiver. If you have your ducks in a row, then if and when APS visits, you will be prepared.

Lastly, if you think she is doing this to get under your skin; then the next time she does it; record her accusations/call to social services. When she is calm and you are calm (as I know if it were me; I would be screaming mad); I'd say "okay mom, it is obvious that you don't think i take good care of you; you reported me X times, I hope you understand that if APS comes in, they will likely investigate and remove you from our home and place you in a facility until they can evaluate the situation; they may even put me in jail so you might be in the facility for a long time...but if that is what you want, thats okay with me"....then just walk away and let that sit with her. This is just a little white lie you would tell her to get her to understand the real consequences and stop the threatening behavior.

If I said that to my mom; she would freak out if she thought she would be removed from the home and placed somewhere else.

Dementia and paranoia are awful, they latch out to the ones they love and the ones that are right there for them. My mom has accused me and my brother of stealing, etc. and made some wild calls to the police; then they call me or ask her to come in to discuss and file charges and then she can't keep it together (dementia) and they realize she is crazy talking with the dementia. I am factual and keep the emotion out of it.

I hope it all goes well for you. It is very stressful; and she sounds like a handful. I hope you can get some in-home help a few hours a week to relieve some of the pressure. Maybe respite care (if you or her can afford) for a couple weeks.

for rcuthbertson - you received many comments, suggestions and questions since your first post on July 25th, yet you have not posted again. Are you all rigjt?"