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My father recently passed and my mom lives with my sister. The house is only worth what is still owed to the bank. If we sell it and pay back the mortgage Medicaid will not get anything. There is no other money. Is this OK?
Mortgage is secured lending. Secured lending means that the lender has controlling interest in the property and that stays in effect until the mortgage is fully paid off and a Release of the Deed of Trust is filed. Yeah as Newbie posted, mortgage gets paid first. It’s the superior position as it’s attached onto the property.
Medicaid is an unsecured lein on the property or claim (against the Estate of the deceased person who was on Medicaid after age 55). Medicaid, under federal rules, has to attempt a recovery attempt. But just what medicaid can or cannot do and when; and whether or not recovery is actually done depends on a whole bunch of factors. Since dad has died, figuring out the laws on all this is something to discuss with a probate atty and one who has experience with Medicaid and MERP (estate recovery program).
State cannot force mom to sell her mortgaged home. BUT That mortgage co can foreclose on your mom & have her evicted if she does not keep that mortgage current. Now mortgage co may not know that dad has died. But eventually they will. They may want to have the mortgage reissued or some type of paperwork to have it go into just moms name. This sort of stuff is fairly routine for mortgages held by couples. But, and imo this is important, your mom needs to be all totally current on her mortgage payments, so there’s nothing amiss that might have the mortgage co want to “call in the loan”. She need to pay in full each mo and not be at all late. So they are all happy with her. My point is mortgage more important than Medicaid as mom needs to have a home to live in.
You mention “medicaid will not get anything”..... do you mean that the house is “under water”, like the balance on the mortgage still due is more than the house could realistically sell for? If that’s what’s happening, there may be no equity in the home & so there will be no equity that could become dads estate on his 50% ownership. If that’s kinda it, there’s nothing Medicaid can recover from dads share in the home..... there’s not equity. Do you kinda understand what I’m getting at?
Now if dad had life insurance policy that named his estate as the beneficiary then his estate would have assets from that. Or if he owned a car, that could be an asset of his estate. But a house w/mortgage that’s more than house is worth, no asset.
A probate atty who understands Medicaid MERP can explain just how this runs for your state.
I'm not a legal expert, but am pretty sure the mortgage holder (bank) always gets paid first. If anything is left from the sale after paying off the mortage and closing costs, the State's Medicaid program would want to try to recover $$ through their estate recovery program. You need to try make sure the house sells at or near its current fair market value. The realtor should do a market analysis before recommending what the listing price should be and what you might expect to get based on sales of comparable properties recently. You might also want to pay for an outside professional appraisal. Also, be aware that Medicaid tries not to impoverish the community spouse. I'm not quite sure what the policy is with regard to estate recovery of there's a surviving spouse but the spouse no longer lives in the home.
WendyLisa Your mom is entitled to her portion of the home sale. All of the profit isn’t owed to Medicaid. Of course the mortgage must be paid but even that debt might be split before Medicaid’s portion is determined. It will be important how the paperwork is submitted. Make sure the proper professional is consulted prior to listing. An experienced title agency might be able to tell you what documents you need. Of course mom will need to watch how she spends her share in case she needs Medicaid in the future. She can pay your sister for her care etc and that is allowed but needs to be documented properly so it doesn’t appear as gifting.
Wendy, ?’s for you? You wrote that mom lives with your sister. so is it that they (mom and sissy) live in the home that your parents bought and it still has a mortgage? OR is it that mom now lives in a home owned by Sissy, and mom & dads home is vacant but still has a mortgage payment due each month?
I’m assuming that dad became too ill to be able to stay living at home with Mom as caregiver, so he moved into a NH and applied for LTC Medicaid to pay for his NH stay. If this is what happened, did your mom get a “waiver”from Medicaid to have a % of dads monthly Social Security income diverted (or “waived”) to go to her rather than becoming a copay to the NH each month? I’m just trying to figure out if the CS / community spouse protections (your mom is the community spouse) that Medicaid is supposed to do was in fact done. I’ve been on this forum quite a long time & it’s amazing how often it doesn’t happen. Was moms costs of living taken into consideration by the state for when dad did his Medicaid application?
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Yeah as Newbie posted, mortgage gets paid first. It’s the superior position as it’s attached onto the property.
Medicaid is an unsecured lein on the property or claim (against the Estate of the deceased person who was on Medicaid after age 55). Medicaid, under federal rules, has to attempt a recovery attempt. But just what medicaid can or cannot do and when; and whether or not recovery is actually done depends on a whole bunch of factors. Since dad has died, figuring out the laws on all this is something to discuss with a probate atty and one who has experience with Medicaid and MERP (estate recovery program).
State cannot force mom to sell her mortgaged home.
BUT
That mortgage co can foreclose on your mom & have her evicted if she does not keep that mortgage current. Now mortgage co may not know that dad has died. But eventually they will. They may want to have the mortgage reissued or some type of paperwork to have it go into just moms name. This sort of stuff is fairly routine for mortgages held by couples. But, and imo this is important, your mom needs to be all totally current on her mortgage payments, so there’s nothing amiss that might have the mortgage co want to “call in the loan”. She need to pay in full each mo and not be at all late. So they are all happy with her.
My point is mortgage more important than Medicaid as mom needs to have a home to live in.
You mention “medicaid will not get anything”..... do you mean that the house is “under water”, like the balance on the mortgage still due is more than the house could realistically sell for? If that’s what’s happening, there may be no equity in the home & so there will be no equity that could become dads estate on his 50% ownership. If that’s kinda it, there’s nothing Medicaid can recover from dads share in the home..... there’s not equity. Do you kinda understand what I’m getting at?
Now if dad had life insurance policy that named his estate as the beneficiary then his estate would have assets from that.
Or if he owned a car, that could be an asset of his estate.
But a house w/mortgage that’s more than house is worth, no asset.
A probate atty who understands Medicaid MERP can explain just how this runs for your state.
Your mom is entitled to her portion of the home sale.
All of the profit isn’t owed to Medicaid. Of course the mortgage must be paid but even that debt might be split before Medicaid’s portion is determined.
It will be important how the paperwork is submitted. Make sure the proper professional is consulted prior to listing. An experienced title agency might be able to tell you what documents you need. Of course mom will need to watch how she spends her share in case she needs Medicaid in the future. She can pay your sister for her care etc and that is allowed but needs to be documented properly so it doesn’t appear as gifting.
Watch for Igloos reply.
so is it that they (mom and sissy) live in the home that your parents bought and it still has a mortgage?
OR
is it that mom now lives in a home owned by Sissy, and mom & dads home is vacant but still has a mortgage payment due each month?
I’m assuming that dad became too ill to be able to stay living at home with Mom as caregiver, so he moved into a NH and applied for LTC Medicaid to pay for his NH stay. If this is what happened, did your mom get a “waiver”from Medicaid to have a % of dads monthly Social Security income diverted (or “waived”) to go to her rather than becoming a copay to the NH each month? I’m just trying to figure out if the CS / community spouse protections (your mom is the community spouse) that Medicaid is supposed to do was in fact done. I’ve been on this forum quite a long time & it’s amazing how often it doesn’t happen.
Was moms costs of living taken into consideration by the state for when dad did his Medicaid application?