Carmen1950 Asked July 2020
No Plans No Cares - What do we do?? My Mom has no money saved to go into assisted living. NOW WHAT?
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Our Mother is 70 and working from home now. She has asthma and eventually will not be able to take care of herself. She is bitter (divorced) and has no money or preparations for her next phase in life. We (her 3 daughters) are not wealthy, but know we need to come up with a plan (financially). Mom refuses to talk about it and could care less that the burden has fallen on us three. Where do we start in this process?
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Medicaid was never intended to be a retirement plan.
Medicaid covers both assisted living and Long-term care, in all U.S. states.
Find out if she is collecting from her ex-husband's social security.
My crazy old grandmother born in 1933 was married 3 times and, somehow was collecting from more than one ex-spouse's social security. Before she died.
Again be re-assured that everyone eventually enters into medicaid. My extremely wealthy great-aunt has been depleting her Trust b/c she is convinced that Medicaid people are treated inferior to cash paying assisted living residents. Technically 1 (one) house and 1 (one) vehicle are each exempt from Medicaid asset calculations.
My aunt has an old Vanderbilt estate that is deeded to an irrevocable trust, which is legally exempt from Medicaid assets calculation, outside that one home one car exemption. She says that about Two years of Assisted Living remain in her cash paying Trust account. Meaning in two years she will enter into Medicaid, and will finally understand that she has been depleting the inheritances of her extended family members for no reason. Medicaid recipients receive the same services and treatments that she receives. She pays $12,0000 (twelve thousand) each month for her private room, whereas Medicaid pays 6,500 each month for a private room at the same facility.
to see if she is getting her own Social Security or your Dads. This will determine if your dads' social security may be more than your mother's. If your dads social security is more than your moms, she can file to get social security under your dad's social security because she has not remarried.
Two: if she still does not have enough to live on, try to see if she qualifies for some assistance from state social services.
Three: If she has not done it yet, Call SSA at 1-800-772-1213 to determine if she qualifies for extra help with Medicare premiums, annual deductibles and prescription co-payments.
The most important, have her go see the doctor for help on her depression.
I hope this helps.
My mom never saved for retirement - no 401K, nothing, even though she earned a good income. Spent every $ she earned and MORE. Then moved in to senior housing and overspent - then expected me to give her rent money. I finally stopped and it was not until she was almost evicted that she started to be a bit smarter. All the years i tried to get her to do 401K - she laughed and said she'd live off SS. Now she realizes how little it is - she expects me to give her money. I laugh and say - no - remember - you were going to live of SS.
She also expects to move in with me. When she brings it up - i am direct - NO. She cries and throws a fit - saying i don't love her, might as well dump her on an ice floe. I tell her she doesn't live with me now and i love her so her reasoning does not make sense - then disengage.
I have told her flat out - i will help her look for a place, i will help her look for aid but i'm not her aging plan. I have warned her that if she chooses to do nothing and an emergency makes the decision - then the county will be making her decisions. She still does NO planning.
Ditto my in-laws.
So, my DH and i have decided to quietly look for places they can affort with medicaid or other assistance but not get ourselves in a swirl about it. we cannot control it. But we ARE in an agreement that their emergencies are NOT going to result in us taking them in "until they figure it out" or giving them money to "tide them over for now until they figure it out". they will never leave and never figure it out. We will be helpers but not the solution.
It is harsh - but they all had relatives live into their 90's and know that at some point we all need assistance with living if our bodies and minds age and wear down. If they choose not to face this - it is a decision they are making. My DH and i are early 50's but we include aging when we meet with our financial advisors for 401K and college savings plans.
Stop stressing about your mother - when the emergency happens -get help them.
1. Low Income Senior apartments that base the rent on income. We looked at these for Mom but the waitlist was 5 years so get your name in now. There are alot being build and the demand is high. The ones we looked at were very nice.
2. Medicaid, financial assistance for people with no assets. Most facilities are required to provide a set number of beds for Medicaid residents. She may have to share a room. Start the paperwork NOW, it is a long process. There are legal ways to spend down her assets to qualify. Call A Place for Mom for places near you that might be suitable.
3. is she a veteran or the widow of a veteran who served in wartime? Check with the VA about an Aid and Attendance pension. This is to assist with paying for in-home or residential care. Start NOW, it’s a lengthy process.
Good luck, it's a lot of paperwork and hopefully your Mom will cooperate.
I also wanted to mention that when the State, or whoever, figures out what assistance your mom qualifies for - only her assets are considered, not contributions from her family. Family is not expected to pay for the parents care.
I understand that this is very painful. I often miss the good old days of Dr. Laura on radio, who often said to people "Not everything has an answer; not everything can be fixed".
Me: Mama, have you and Daddy given any thought to what you will do if one of you breaks a hip or gets seriously ill? Your house is not handicap accessible.
(and there are many steps to get into the house).
Mama: (with a joking/smirk on her face) Aren't you coming to take care of us if we need you?
Me: No. I live over an hour and a half away.
Mama: Aww. Well you can just come stay here for awhile. I think I hear someone outside. (she gets up to look out the window, knowing nobody is there)
Me: We need to discuss this
Mama: Oh look! A SQUIRREL!!!!
Daddy: Stares straight ahead, twiddles his thumbs and silent prays this conversation will end soon.
THE END
Talk reality amongst the siblings. Discuss what you could "reasonably do" to help your mother when she needs help: taking her on errands if she can not see well enough to drive, helping clean her home if she gets injured or develops mobility issues, having a meal together so she doesn't get isolated... Decide individually and let the others know if "taking mom into your home" is an option or not. If nobody is able to take mom in, then mom needs to know this. You do NOT have to finance her assisted living or nursing home placement. Your mom is probably many years away from needing your assistance, but having conversations with your siblings is always a good idea.
I am 67 and my husband is 70; he is still working by choice.
My suggestion would be first to read Being Mortal by Atul Gawande. It is not a book that gives answers but it is about how we are all mortal and how do we want life to be lived. Instead of discussing with your mother what her financial plan will be; since she does not have one, of course she refuses to discuss is, start by asking her the questions that relate to how she sees the rest of her life and how she wants it to be. Try to make her think of what she envisions. That will help you see what she thinks and envisions.
It is too soon to start looking for facilities or anything like that. It is not too soon to use that discussion as a place to start planning who will handle what when she is no longer able to. It would be a good idea to get information about what her assets are. Hopefully she deferred her social security until age 70 to get the maximum amount. A POA for healthcare and financial business is essential so that that person can speak for her when she is not able to. It does not give you the right to do whatever you want and you can reassure her of that. She should also complete a will. If she is not willing to discuss naming a POA and really will not even entertain a discussion of what she things the next 20 years looks like, then I would initiate a discussion to advise her that while you all love her and will help her when the time comes, that help will not include giving her money, or providing care in your homes.
We just spent the last 3 years initially supervising and then finally coordinating care for my inlaws. My husband had been designated their POA when the did their trust and will more than 20 years ago, when they were 70. Nothing was necessary until the last few years. They were in their own home until October 2018 when then went to independent living for 6 months and then memory care. As a result of this experience, which in our case went very well, we completed our own trust and will and informed our kids so they would know.
While you are all a bit vague and worried about this, mother is not going to take seriously the fact that she needs to work on it herself. Be clear and be firm. Bitter or not, the sooner she knows, the better your chances of getting her to do something sensible.
In your shoes, I would research Medicaid and local facilities, so that if she does nothing you have some idea of what comes next. But keep quiet about it, and stick to the letter of your letters!
Back in 2014 when my mom was 89 and in the early stages of Alzheimer's, I had no idea what to do or where to turn which made me feel very overwhelmed and upset. I finally ended up calling our local "Area of Aging Agency" (it might be called something else depending on what state you are in) and gave the person who answered the phone a brief idea of what I was looking for and they found the appropriate social worker for my situation. Then, I set up an appointment to talk with them in person. They can give suggestions etc.
In my case my dad had passed away ten years earlier and my mom had continued to live in their home which was paid for. I already had been going back and forth from our house to hers for those ten years and could no longer do it. I tried every avenue to keep her in her home as those were her wishes. None of them worked for mainly two reasons: 1) She did not like having strangers in her home and 2) She couldn't afford help seven days a week and one day wasn't enough. So in our case the only option was to move her into an IL/AL facility, clear out her house and put it up for sale in order to be able to pay the monthly rent at the facility. She had several sources of income other than Social Security - some were from when my dad died and some were from having worked in the school system until 71 years old - it just wasn't enough as any facility is expensive. I've seen ranges anywhere from $3,500 to upwards of $8,000. Also, I had to find a facility that would accept ALTCS (our state's Long Term Care System) if she were to start running out of money. For us, we would have to have her in the same facility for a minimum of two years in order to qualify and apply for ALTCS and her money would have to dwindle down to $2,000. Since then, I've been able to put a large sum from the sale of her house into a Money Market so it would earn money each month but, yet I could have access to it as needed without a penalty which wouldn't be so with her CD's she had. We had her CD's staggered and when each one would come up for renewal, I would eliminate it and just keep it in her regular checking account.
Unfortunately it's not uncommon for a parent without a plan to not only be unwilling to discuss it but as in your case leave the burden to fall on you and your two sisters. My husband is the only one who works so we are not financially able to do things for her either. I sure hope you can come up with a plan in order to deal with the issues at hand and for what will come further down the road. I'm assuming you have all the proper paperwork i.e. Power of Attorney Forms - Regular, Durable, Financial, Health along with a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) form and I have Living Will/Advanced Directive Forms as well. These will be needed as you continue to start taking the reins for your mom. I wish all of you the best as you begin the process going forward!
Not knowing how well you and your sisters get along - hopefully well enough to do this - but were I you, I would start by having a (private) meeting with my sisters, in which we pledge to each other that NONE of us will assume mom's caregiving, nor expect EACH OTHER to, based on things that *usually* decide which child mom ends up living with - most money, emptiest house, most convenient to doctors, most accommodating spouse, etc.
Then, as a united front, confront mom and tell her where you stand. Your mom is only 70. That is not to old for her to take an ACTIVE part in planning for HER future. Granted, it's probably too late in the game for her to accumulate significant savings, but that doesn't knock her out of any future care BESIDES family. Make very sure she understands this. "Mom, you can either participate in finding out this information, or we will decide *together* without your input, based on YOUR financial means and availability of care facilities. You might end up in a place that we think is adequate, but you hate. But please understand that living with *ANY* of us is not even up for consideration. So it's really in YOUR best interests to take an active part in this planning.
This is not an easy conversation to have. It is even *harder* to do. You and your sisters need to be absolutely sure that whatever you say to mom you are all willing to follow through with. You will also need to be there for each other, in the event she starts a "divide and conquer" type of campaign. And to hold each other up if she starts with a guilt trip.
What you need to be assured of - and assure your sisters of - is that her failure to plan is HER failure, not yours.
Good luck!
You are not responsible for her happiness. You shouldn't have any expectations that providing her care personally and financing it will make her less bitter. If she is currently depressed, this should be addressed by her doctor. At 70 and still working she can get the maximum amount of her SS. FYI if she was married to a husband for 10 years she can apply to receive HIS social security amount, even if he remarried. Call first to know the specifics. She will need to make an appointment at the SS Admin office near her and bring an original copy of her marriage certificate and divorce paperwork. There is much to know so poke around this forum on the different topics. I wish you much success in encouraging her to plan for her future wisely.
https://www.payingforseniorcare.com/south-carolina
With regard to being bitter and divorced, did your mother seek mental health treatment after her divorce, either individually or in a group? Would she consider it now?