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My MIL can be very sweet at times, but is very much a Queen bee. She is controlling, and very verbally abusive. We live in another state now. My husband is thinking he may be the only person who can care for her. A relative that lived with her had to move because she couldn't take it anymore. I'm in my early seventies, my husband had a heart attack 6 years ago, and I think it's crazy to even consider it. I'd be leaving my adult daughters here & moving to a new state. MIL has a very difficult time with a caregiver sent to her home to help her with showering. She absolutely threw a fit and refused. She has refused to see doctors. We've had to find ways around that with mobile doctors coming to her home. I think finding a part-time home health caregiver would be a help to her. It will just have to be the right person. She dresses herself, can give herself a shower now, can use a microwave and converses well. She is refusing to take walks. Assisted living would be another choice. Ideas?

Assistive Living is the way to go with stubborn elderly .

No family member should volunteer to live with an uncooperative , controlling , verbally abusive person. Other family has already quit living with her .

Furthermore,

The queen bee mother will try to maintain parental control as she sees your husband as her child . She will not listen to him .

There are countless threads on this Forum where people made the mistake your husband wants to make and they are begging for ways to get their parent out of the house . Their mental and physical health suffers , as well as their marriages .

Tell your husband DON’T DO IT. It is difficult to get a parent out of your home when it becomes their legal residence .

Do not move and upend your life .
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MargaretMcKen Sep 1, 2024
No, tell your husband I WON'T DO IT.
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Do not move Queen Bee in.For one thing there’s only one Queen to a hive, and for another her health will only decline to the point where she will have to have an aide in to help with her care as you aren’t exactly a spring chicken and your husband already has a major cardiac history.
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waytomisery Sep 1, 2024
Exactly .

The woman will most likely refuse a caregiver aide to come help at the home . She will expect her son and daughter in law to do it all . She also refuses doctors. This is all available at assisted living .
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Great comments. Especially about trying to maintain parental control. She does not listen to him very often. Will look into assisted living for her. Thank God we are not her durable power of attorney. But we can make suggestions to the one who is.
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waytomisery Sep 1, 2024
That is another reason not to take her in your home . If someone else has POA ,
you have no powers . We have had many people come here in a bind stuck with someone in their home because someone else has POA and doesn’t want to place the parent in assisted living .
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I’d suggest that you don’t go along with this now. Don’t wait until it is set up, wait for it to go wrong, and try to change it then. Try very hard to avoid moving to the new out-of-state house with the MIL suite.

If your husband insists, go to a lawyer and ask about division of assets. If you secure your half, don’t let it be invested in the new house. Then you have at least an option for getting out, if you do get forced into the move.

Even going to the lawyer to ask about it, and then discussing it with DH, is a very very good way to show in practical terms how serious you are about objecting to this. If DH won’t listen, go ahead with the division of assets. You don’t have to leave him or divorce, just secure your financial future in case it really does go wrong. After all, half of the marriage and its funds, genuinely are yours.
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Beatty Sep 5, 2024
"in case it really does go wrong"

Do we have this conversation now? The one about the real risk of caregivers (with known health issues OR healthy) suddenly passing away BEFORE their elderly parent.
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I plan to tell my husband there is no way I can agree to being her caregiver or moving to another state & giving up everything I have here. Eventually he will see that it's not wise.
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waytomisery Sep 2, 2024
Why would you have been the caregiver ? It’s not your mother . Was he expecting you to do all the hands on care ? He does not get to decide to place you in servitude .
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Read my post from today. My 90 year old parents just moved into my condo complex and are renting. My Dad just got out of the hospital and my husband who is suffering from radiation and chemo side effects had to pick him up. If he was in assisted living my mother would have someone there for her and her dog instead of me staying being in her apartment all day like a prisoner. This is coming from someone who deeply loves her mother. Read my post. Take care!
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Daughterof1930 Sep 2, 2024
Actually your husband did not “have” to pick him up and you don’t need to be “like a prisoner” These are both choices made by you
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You are making a very wise decision.

I hope things work out for you, Hiker.
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My mother demanded in-home care - ME! Only me, 24/7, 365 days per year. She refused to cooperate with the lovely PSW we hired. Tried to fire her and block her from entering. She’d actually try to stop the PSW from cooking, washing up and laundry, insisting I was to do it.

She’d pester us at all hours, pounding on our bedroom door because she was mad about something. Or wanted something. 2am, 4am, 6am... she didn’t care. She felt entitled to my attention and services. Meanwhile, we had to be up for work (husband) and get the kids ready for school (me). My blood pressure soared, I stress ate lots of extra weight and was a nervous wreck. The tension in our home was unbearable.

Do not do it! You will lose your life!
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MargaretMcKen Sep 2, 2024
For anyone else in the situation you were in, my advice would be to go away for a holiday of not less than 2 weeks.
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Why would the move need to be in another state?
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These stubborn elderly parents want control, period and expect children to give up their lives and come running for stupid stuff. My advice: Don't do it. It will come a time for all of us if we live long enough will eventually have to be placed somewhere either in a facility or in the grave. Yes, premature deaths have happened to caretakers trying to take care of someone. No joke here.

Let your husband go and see to his mom, but tell him you are not selling your house and uprooting your life to go live with someone who is having a tantrum.

I had clients like these through agency work. One had a fit because I would not place a trash bag in a trashcan when it was time for me to clock out and literally screamed in my face. It was extremely dark outside and I could not see where I was stepping. I could have fallen and broke an ankle or wrist or something. I put up with this woman for at least six weeks before I left for good. One time she didn't want me there and had actually confabulated a story that she fell when she didn't. I had already left for the evening. We have to report falls here in Washington, DC even though we weren't on the shift. I went outside to make a call because she was yelling and screaming. Anyway, girlfriend decided to lock me outside in ninety-five degree weather. This was the straw that broke the camel's back. I drove home and told them I was done for the day. I needed the job and didn't want to risk my certification, so I went back going against my best judgment. Another time she had her friend take her to the bank and told me to come back in an hour. The agency went along with this behavior, and basically gaslighted the aides into taking these cases. I could here people snickering in the background at the agency about what was going on. I found out later on that she had not been paying her bill and they were about to pull services. I called the agency for her. While in her cousin's presence, she managed to write a check with an amount to keep her covered. That agency needed me on the case so that they could get paid.

I don't buy into the hype that these people don't know what they are doing. I can tell the difference from someone who is really out of it from devilish behavior. This woman was just plain mean, period.

One day she upset me so badly and I told her that I knew she didn't like me. I handed her the phone and told her that she could call and cancel me anytime. I had been doing my job in spite of all the hassles from her. I would fix two meals, do laundry, vacuum, dust, clean the bathroom, wash dishes and etc. She would of course find fault with things I did, but lacked the coordination and strength to do them herself. She should have been placed like yesterday. She was an unsafe discharge.

I don't know what person came up with this aging in place nonsense. However, I think I can find better things to do with my time than to spend it being accused of stealing, being threatened with phone calls to the police, being verbally and physically (restrained) yes this happened, and being criticized and run ragged by an elderly person. One elderly man threatened to kill me over some Walmart bags.
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BurntCaregiver Sep 7, 2024
@Scampie

Someone physically restrained you? That's when you throw a punch and make it a good one. Or aim a well-placed kick. Or get that pepper spray (which you should always have on your person) out and let them have it right in the face. I certainly would not think twice or hesitate to take any of these actions. My safety comes first 24/7.

If a client is strong enough to literally restrain their caregiver, they can take a$$-kicking well enough.
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Hiker, I suggest AL, I just don't understand as a society how it ever became ok for a senior to be taking care of there elderly senior parents.

Some here just beginning there retirement years, kids are older, settled in life , your not working enjoying your life and the bomb goes off.

We are expected to put are life, are home, are livelihood, are health on hold to care for are parents because that is what we are "expected" to do

If are parents did take care of there parents they did it in their 40s and 50s, not 60s and 70s, even 80s.

Talk to your husband that this is your time , and put mom in an AL.
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Please don't do it. I hope you read my post and will listen to the great advice. My parents rented a 3 bedroom and the third room is literally an apartment with it's own front door and bathroom. They said they would have someone when needed to stay in there - guess what? They told me they don't want anyone living with them. If they were in assisted living, they would have room service like a hotel and I wouldn't be serving them meals. My mother just called my husband and woke him up to have him help my Dad with his contraption on his body from the hospital yesterday. Like I said, my husband is ill and needs to rest. Are they for real?
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MiaMoor Sep 4, 2024
Time to say no!
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I would be telling my husband that this isn't an option I would accept.
I would tell him simply that I do not intend to further discuss such a plan, but that he needs to understand that if he takes on the care of his mother you will sue for divorce and leave him at once.

Meanwhile see a divorce attorney for options about legal separation and division of finances. Begin by withdrawing funds to set up a PRIVATE account of your own, emergency money that you will need to get an efficiency apartment.
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I am 74 and no way would I pick up and leave my family for a stubborn old woman. Your husband has had one heart attack what makes him think he can care for Mom. And I would be telling him he will be doing the caring. Mom needs to be placed.

I had a MIL who chose to move to Fla from NJ. For years she hounded my husband first, to get a job and move down there. Then when he retired it was get a house near me and move down. He just ignored her. Then she got me on the phone and I told her I was not leaving my Mom, my girls and my grands. She said Mom can move down here. I said no, she has her Church and her friends, I was not moving her. My MILs response, "We all have to compromise". I had to hold my tongue but my thought was "Everyone but you".
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Taking care of his mother does not mean being her full time caregiver. She acts up because she's most likely gotten her way before by doing so. Work with the POA to get her placed if she won't accept an in home caregiver. What she really needs is to know that whatever fit she throws, your husband is not going to be her caregiver because he can't. He lives too far away, isn't healthy enough, and she is too difficult. And you certainly are not going to either. You two are only going to do what is possible for you, which is be advocates by visiting when you can, helping to arrange care for her, and calling her to chat and make sure she is okay. What she WANTS no longer matters. It is now what she NEEDS.
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I saw a response on another post for stubborn parents. She accepts home health care or moves to assisted living. Period. Her other relative who MIL listens to can explain it to her. She will be mad but given a choice gladly do anything to stay home. Not sure how she pays for it after her savings run out. But I’m not leaving. There is no immediate need right now just when her current family caregiver goes on a 4-6 week vacation.
Thank you for all your ideas and encouragement.
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BurntCaregiver Sep 5, 2024
Hiker,

Never let your MIL be moved into your house. She will take over not only your home but also your lives. Like I said in the comments, I did homecare for 25 years. I saw many once happy marriages end in bitter divorce because a needy MIL or FIL was moved into a home to be cared for.
There were many kids who became very resentful and even grew to hate their parents for wrecking their home with a needy and demanding elder.

Be careful because muti-generational living is never like 'The Waltons'. Also, what paid caregiver goes on a 6-week long vacation? One that has the resources to do that also has enough to not come back and to leave at the drop of a hat.
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Why on earth do such people resist assisted living? What is your husband thinking? A major shift in thinking is required here. Your MIL’s the one with the problem (aging decline) and everyone else is supposed to hop around so she can do what she wants?

No way. Your husband’s plan is a cockamamie idea to make you and everyone including him miserable. Don’t do it unless running yourself ragged to keep this old biddy happy strikes you as a fun way to spend your life. I was visiting an assisted living place today. Residents were being entertained by a local singing group and then adjourned to the nicely decorated dining room for a choice of lunches. A man and his wife, both losing mobility, had their Yorkie with them. Tomorrow there’s an outing to a shopping center.

And not one of them is demanding their families serve them like slaves!
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BurntCaregiver Sep 4, 2024
@Fawnby

People resist AL because they want to control the homes and lives of their family. The sense of entitlement is outrageous.
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Tell your husband plainly that you refuse to live in the same house with his mother. That's it. Either he respects and considers alternatives to this arrangement or you will file for divorce.

I think if you explain to him in these plain terms, he will realize very quickly that he's not the only person who can take care of his mother.
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AL is a must for her. You two cannot do this! It will destroy your health! Move her to an AL near where you live now - I wouldn't leave my family to go to her. I truly hope the best for you all. I have two Sons who I have already told that when my time comes - don't give it a second thought - just find me a nice AL place and that's it! Mom's orders!
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"My Husband is considering..
*Consideration* is an excellant idea. Encourage him to deeply consider, talk to others, use his memory for past history, open his eyes to current behaviour.

"My husband is thinking he may be the only person who can care for her".

He is free to THINK this.

BUT IT IS NOT TRUE.
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If she’s going to be moving anyway, why can’t she move to your current state?
DO NOT upend your lives!
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Hiker75 Sep 6, 2024
She's not moving to another state. Her other son is currently taking care of her but needs a break.
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Why - as humans - do we think we are the ONLY people who can do something? Most likely because we want to feel needed and special.

Caregiving will NOT make him feel special. At BEST he will spend some time with his mom and start to see all of the gaps. At worst - it can ruin relationships - his with her, his with you, etc.

She likely doesn't need to live alone at this stage. But she does NOT need to live with you and have your husband be her dedicated caregiver.

Because here is what will happen. He will QUICKLY find that he is not the only person who can care for her - because he can't do it alone for any extended length of time - he will need help. And guess who he is going to zero in on for that help? His beloved spouse because of course you want to take care of his mother as much as he does right?

MIL needs help with showering - is HE going to be comfortable doing that? Is SHE going to let him?

Here is what you have to remember - while he may be her "child" - as we age and our world shrinks - we become more self-focused naturally. If you throw in dementia - the person is going to become more childlike and need someone to be "in charge" rather than running themselves ragged taking care of them. She is going to try to be his parent - when she is struggling with adult behaviors herself. She will demand that he do something simply because "I said so, I'm your mother, you will do as I say".

He needs to consider what she NEEDS at this stage, not what she WANTS.
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Hiker75 Sep 13, 2024
Excellent advice!
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Answer is no
if she’s abusive now it can only get worse
you will regret it
it’s pressure enough to look after an elderly person without complications if abusive behaviour
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Please, please be extremely careful x
i care for my father alone at home, he is 95 years and I am 60 years and extremely tired and burnt out most of the time. You will be pulled in to care for your MIL and your husband too with his declining heart condition. I thought innocently, and before I found this wonderful site (with all our friends advice), that it would be ok and we would manage together. Until you do it full time, I don’t think anybody realises the enormous, lonely task it can be. Frightening at times when they become ill and require emergency admission, plus all the things you have to do outside the home, stops because you are committed. So please, please my advice to you as caring and considerate as you are and your caring husband is please say no. Say no gently with suggestions of what would be better and AL is the answer and all your friends here on this site advising you too, we cannot all be wrong. Please remember as much as your husband loves his mum, his mum understands exactly what she is doing. Please stay where you are and say to your husband, maybe he goes and stays with her for a couple of days or weeks to assess her needs, then he will come running home to you knowing you are right…..take care and please remember it is ok to say no…..look after your health too, please xx
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Daughterof1930 Sep 7, 2024
Wise words. No one sets out to be a cautionary tale. I hope you find rest soon
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You need to let your husband take over her complete care since he isn’t facing facts she is going to get worse . Sounds like she has Dementia. Don’t let your husband depend on you to take care of her so he can see first hand when she starts treating him the way she treats you. I’m 73 and taking care of my Dementia husband who is verbally abusive and twice physically in which I had to have the police here. My health is not good now but none of his siblings will have nothing to do with him, he never had friends himself. His Social Worker told me I was getting burned out and needed a break. He refuses to let anyone come to help take care of him as he says I can do it. He now has Alzheimer’s also. These diseases are terrible and being their caregiver can tear your health down. I know my husband isn’t responsible for his outbursts of yelling, cussing, kicking & throwing things, it is the diseases. I will take care of him until I die or if he dies because I love him. Your husband needs to have caregivers come in and take care of his mother out of respect for you. Personally, I don’t believe in nursing homes or Memory Care Units as they do not get proper care. I have worked in them, they are so short staffed today and the Administrators cut cost as most places are FOR PROFIT, so to keep their job to show they are making profits they cut costs. I saw nurses walk out in only 1/2 hour from being on duty due to unsafe working conditions and they didn’t want to lose their license because they had to dispense medication to over 30 patients because she had no other nurse on duty to help. I saw neglect and I will not let my husband be subjected to that. Eventually as he gets worse I will have someone come in to help me as I want to stay alive to give him proper care. When your MIL is abusive, just walk away. When my husband does, I don’t say anything as I just leave the room, go to my room, watch my TV and pray. After an hour I come out and he is so happy to see me and says he missed me. I cherish these moments as I put myself in his place and know this isn’t him when he is mean, hides things, breaks things, throws things. I feel he has to be so frustrated he can’t remember or do things anymore. If your husband loves you and his mother he will bring in caregivers to help take care of her.
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Katherine1953 Sep 7, 2024
Despite your negative experience with care facilities, I have my partner in an excellent one where he has lived for 5 years. I agree that the industry as a whole has become a corporate profit monster, but there are good ones if you look for them.
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My husband’s Psychiatrist sent me this book. “When Reasoning No Longer Works”. It is a practical guide for caregivers dealing with Dementia and Alzheimer’s care. It is by Angel Smits, BS, Gerentology. This will give you a better understanding and it has helped me a lot. Good luck and God bless.
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Hiker75 Sep 13, 2024
Thank you! It's just what we need to read. God bless you too!
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Do not move away from your daughter to live with queen bee. NO WAY! Your life will be lousy and no one deserves that.
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Aging ravages the brain often before the body. What you cannot see is her disability to reason and make sense is gone. The older person’s brain goes into survival mode. They demand a lot from those they trust because they have needs they cannot express, like fear of falling, fear of being confused more and more, fear of someone taking advantage of them, fear comes when they no longer understand and can make sense of their world. That does not mean you need to be the caregiver. I am caregiver for my MIL. She trusts me more ….I am her person. So when she is unsure, confused, etc. I am the one she grabs hold of as she drowns in this loss, and in this strange new state. I have a caregiver personality and taught special needs kids for 40 years. I have an understanding about his state of mind and needing someone to trust. I am a whiz at changing the subject to get away from those fears and feelings of confusion. I have had lots of practice in moving with the person and helping them find joy in life. I know it requires extra sleep so I nap when she naps. I also have a caregiver to relieve me two mornings a week when I go to exercise class. My husband (her son) is learning and relieves me to go walk, or lunch with sisters. We cannot lift her in and out of car so have full time home health care (medicare covers). Another plus is that I enjoy staying home because I like to have the time to. Knit, sew, and write ed. Material to sell on my website, and i even like keeping the house and cooking. People often tell me how good it is of me to do this. It seems natural to me and not so much of a chore. But my husband and I are healthy in our mid 70’s where my MIL is 98. She can stand with help of a walker, I guide her and hold on to the back of her waist band because she has a fear of falling. She has not fallen in a year. Together, the walker, my MIL and i walk to the rr and back to a chair and sometimes to the patio to sit. (Though everytime we go to rr, she asks, “now which way is the nearest rr?” You have to know how to find the joy in the moment and we have lots of those moments. We have bird feeders up on patio and lot so flowers. She lives through me. I talk to her as I water flowers and dead-head them and do other household chores. We have conversations at times that make no sense but she enjoys them. We give her mail that is junk but she can spend hours reading it. You have to help her find some joy in her day. She sleeps a lot, sometimes does not want to take meds, and wants to sleep in her clothes. It is ok. I can just leave the meds on her side tray and tell her she can take them later. She always does. I do not argue or try to make her understand because it will not happen. You have to have understanding, patience, and find joy in the spaces you have. If you do not then both you and your MIL will be better in a different caregiving situations.
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ACcaloconana7 Sep 7, 2024
I loved reading this ! Thank you. I just finished caring for a lady the same age as I (79 ) as part of a team.
For 16 months our “ team from Heaven” covered 16 hrs/ day. I believe that she has FTD given the communication and behavioral issues.
I wouldn’t have missed it for the world ! You are so eloquent in describing exactly how I feel re: our times of deep connection.
My lady is now in a memory care facility and doing immensely better than any of us would have predicted.
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First of all, have all legal paperwork completed for her if she is cognizant to sign for POA for finances and healthcare. Once that is completed, keep notes/ photos of all of her behaviors to discuss with her primary care doctor, who should do all necessary testing to determine her physical and mental status, to determine if she has a diagnosis that is contributing to her behaviors. Once you know what you are dealing with, you can , with the help of her doctors, determine her care needs.
Her needs should not force you to move away from your family. Figure out if she would receive better care in a facility, with proper medication and medical care, as well as how she can use her own assets to pay for her care. Don’t sacrifice your whole family for her. You only have responsibility to keep her safe and comfortable. You can’t make her happy.
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Hiker75 Sep 13, 2024
She does have a relative that is her durable power of attorney. Keeping note of behaviors is a good idea. She is quite content is everything is done the way she likes and isn't forced to do something she needs to do. She can be very bossy in general. When we're with her we help her cut back on coffee in the evening and I think that helps. Her DOA lives 15 min. away from her. So we need to keep her in that area.
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If she would agree to it, perhaps it would be best for your MIL to move to a senior facility near you and your husband, so that you can maintain your contacts with your daughters. You'll have your hands full caring for your husband and yourself as you age. My mother did that for me, and it worked out very well. I was able to visit her often and oversee her care when she became unable to care for herself. She moved into a continuing care facility and ended up using all parts of the facility (independent living, assisted living, memory care and skilled nursing). The facility took care of moving her from one apartment to another.
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Hiker75 Sep 13, 2024
That would work but she has 4 great grandkids, and a grandson who is like a son living near her now. Her other son is living with her now and taking care of her. We live in a high altitude area so she couldn't make that change nor could her dog. It's a 2 day drive but we can drive there a couple of times a year to help while my BIL takes a vacation. My husband is thinking of what happens if my BIL can no longer live with her. My husband will be her main caregiver while we help this fall & will stay longer than I can. Hoping he sees it's just too much for him for now too. Thanks for the ideas!
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