My mom is 88, and refuses to do a will or Trust. This is a type of emotional blackmail. What do I do?

4Hope, if your mom is financially secure, I don't understand why you are not working with her under a care agreement. She should be paying you monthly for the care she is getting, and not dangling something that may or may not be valuable to you after she dies. Many people do not believe in accepting money for their parent's care. I do (if they can afford it). But if you don't, that is fine. Do what you do out of generosity. If you think you are doing more than you want to, then cut back. Don't let any of the care decisions be influenced by a will that may or may not ever exist.

Personally, I'd let the will topic go. She cannot compell you, from beyond the grave, to maintain property for her granddaughter. You don't have to move, no matter what her will says. She cannot force you to pay taxes or mortgage payments or upkeep for a house that isn't yours. If you don't want the house (and who would under those circumstances?) you don't have to accept it. And, really, won't it be up to the mortgage company whether they are willing to transfer the mortgage to another party? They may simply want to be paid when your mother dies, which would come out of the estate funds. I don't know how these things work -- but this is why if Mother wants things to happen a certain way she really needs to have the guidance of a lawyer.

"Mother, you have done a good job managing your finances and unless you need more care than I can give you here in your own home, you will probably be one of the few people of your generation who has something to leave to your heirs. It is totally your money and your decision about what you will do with it. I'm going to continue to help you out with the yard work and shopping, etc. regardless of what you do with the will. If you choose not to make a will, that is OK with me, too. Us kids will divide everything equally, by law, in that case. But talking about the will isn't very productive. Do as you please. It is your business, not mine. So let's just not talk about it anymore."

If she brings up the "you are going to get more" ploy, say, "Mom, unless you actually make a will your children are all going to share equally in your estate, with nothing going to your grandchild, if there is anything left when you pass on. What you do about your estate is your business. I don't want to discuss it."

If this really is emotional blackmail, it can only work if you go along with it.

As for her kids paying for the legal fees of a will or trust or whatever ... nonsense. She is not required to have a will. If she doesn't want to, or would kind of like to but doesn't want to pay for it, that is her right. (And since money she spends now is money that won't be available in her estate, all of her heirs are in a sense "paying" for the legal work anyway. It is just a little less you'll each get in the end.)

And here is something else to keep in mind. Your mother is 88. In the next 5 or 6 or even 2 years she may develop serious health issues. For "serious" read "expensive." She would certainly not be the first parent who thought she had a lot of money to leave to her heirs who winds up with little or nothing to leave anybody. What if she had to be in a skilled nursing facility for 5 years? What would that do the estate?

Do not count on getting anything when she dies. If you feel you should be compensated for the help you provide, arrange to get paid monthly, under a care agreement. If you are willing to do it without compensation, take two gold stars out of petty cash. Just don't count on what will happen after Mom passes.

I would just add that I don't think any attorney would be willing to write a will that leaves the house with a mortgage to you with the stipulation that you pay the mortgage, taxes and upkeep and then it goes to your niece. That is just nuts. Think about it. Your mom passes, the will is read, and you and your husband say, "oh, no thanks", like any sensible person would say. Then what would happen to the house. Well, if no one made the payment, it goes to foreclosure. An attorney would surely point this out to your mom and would not want to be part of such a poor plan. Also, as Jeanne said, the lender has the right to call the mortgage due and payable at the time of your mom's death. They are in no way obligated to take a house payment from a third party.

Your mom is playing you. It could be that she is losing some of her cognitive skills. If she is such a wise money person, she should be able to see that what she is suggesting is a recipe for disaster, meaning the losing of her assets which, normally, she would not want.

My advise is to ignore her and let it be. Don't talk about this with her anymore other than to say, whatever you want to do with your assets if fine with me. Because I have an evil heart, I would probably add, "Mom,there is no reason to talk about your assets now. You could have a major illness, stroke or God knows what and end up in a nursing home for 10 years before you die. At that point, you wouldn't have any assets anyway. I sure hope that doesn't happen, but you never know. That will give her something else to think about.

You know, 4hurt, my parents didn't have anything, but I have watched my husbands mom and her friends who felt they would have something to leave their kids. OMG, they love to talk to each other about the hole passing down thing. You would think they were the wealthy elite and I think they enjoyed seeing themselves as such, even though their assets were small potatoes. My MIL ended up on Medical and we pitched in for her. Don't play the game. Do what's in your heart and nothing more. Hugs, Cattails

4-hope, there is something called a "due-on-transfer" clause in many mortgages. Which means if you mother gives you this home in her will, the mortgage is due in full and you will be expected to pay off the home. Not a good deal for you, seems your mom just wants you to pay for the house for the grand daughter.

Refuse this, sounds as if you have a good life and do not need her house. However, I would consider being paid or at the very least make your mom pay for some of her yard work, etc. My brother started right off with not doing this sort of thing for my mom and forced her to hire a yard man. If he hadn't done this, he would be maintaining three homes and working 50+ hours a week. That would have been fine with mom as long as she could preserve her money. And like your mom, she has been very frugel and now has plenty.

I would drop the entire will talk, probate will take care of everything. It will go to her heirs.

When I started out helping my mom after my dad's death (I was turning 50 at the time) - I only did it to give back and because I was a workaholic, unmarried at the time, no personal life, and did not want to continue that lifestyle. I wanted to give back to her and my dad. My brother and his non-family wife have never really been any help-just drama, and my sister is always busy with her small company and work. Oh! and she is a mom and I am NOT (I get that a lot). Oddly, after making this decision, shortly thereafter I actually met my current spouse and decided - I didn't have to be 'rich' or constantly chasing more money. We live a comfortable life style and do most all our house and yard work ourselves. We are frugal but not overboard. My spouse has a good job, I continued and finished up some loose end business, went back into the Reserves , and had that as my part time job and have now retired. I made these decisions with my spouse, who is a great guy and supportive to me and my mom, and we decided that I would not return full time to the work world - but for the most part I would work on my husband and my projects (we did a big home renovation) and be available to travel when I could with him and be available to help my mom - at the time she was living 3,000 miles away and there were NO family members left in that area after my dad died - as my brother and his wife moved south about 6 months after my dad's death. Maybe after 5-6 years into doing this, and my mom beginning to tell me she wanted to do the most for me - I told her that was up to her. I never helped her so she would give me or leave something to me. She was a good and caring mom, never worked outside the home, and though totally co-dependent - she always tried to keep peace in the family or be there when we needed her. She was there often for me in my adult life to offer a helping hand - and so when my dad died - I gladly wanted to be there for her.

As you can read in my earlier post –she is not giving me her home with the mortgage. She wants my husband and me to maintain it and live in it if we want to live in a smaller home (we are now in our 60’s) if she pre-deceases us. When she sort of blackmails me – I try calmly to explain that the house is not going to me it is going to her grandchild. At this point I try just not to say anything. In this scenario – actually my mom will leave me nothing really that I would have as far as my own cash to help towards my own latter years- which at this point does strike me as a bit ironic. At this point it is okay. She doesn’t compute the logistics of it. Even though my husband and I have our own nice house that we are paying a mortgage on –she thinks she is doing something for us – by giving us the option to live in her smaller house until we want to hand it over to her grandchild who is now 16.

I have considered exactly what you are suggesting- let it go. Some people think saying something is the same as doing something. It is possible that she does want to do nothing – so by default she treats all her children the same. That is fine, I never requested anything different.
After like 14-15 years – it would be nice if at least my sister chipped in more to handle the responsibilities. I am weary. I am most weary that my mom (in her distorted thinking-though I do believe she is manipulative and I think she plays her children against each other at this point) is believing and giving my sister the idea that she has some promise to me. I have recently told my sister that my mom has no updated will, and no Trust. Her will is quite old, and does not even contain the house she has now bought. My sister is very smart. She knows that a promise is nothing to stand – but when I ask her for help in some way – except for what she wants to do…have dinner, she has told me that my mom and I have an arrangement and or it is not her responsibility (she is 10 yrs younger than me).
Lastly, yep, I do think my mom is acting like she is testing me and evaluating me as to whether I have done all this or am doing all that I do just to get something from her. Trust me, no sane person, except for one who is just trying to help their mom be safe and happy in her older years, would go through some of the stuff I have done trying to satisfy her or encourage her to take the blessings that my dad left her and have an optimistic and happy life. At this point If I give up - I believe neither my sister or brother will step in. My sister delegates everything either to her secretary or her life partner. It is a puzzle. I'm glad I found this site to try and get some focus before I disrupt the blessings that the Lord has placed in my own life. Thanks for listening.

Maybe you are correct – I should let it go. Guess I am stubborn in knowing all the ways I have
tried to help my mom save money, her expecting me to do her house work, yard work, because she is giving me this house – has or is pretty much making me, a smart person, schizo.

Thanks for the time you took in replying to my post.

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The house is a big piece of tangible power for your mother. At 88, refusing to write a will is just being manipulative. Most states have a five year look back period for real estate transfers; and since she's bound to have some major health related expenses soon enough, there's a huge possibility that the house will be lost to any family member. As much as your mother needs compassion, I do feel for you, being subjected to her dysfunction must be so draining.

Hire an elder care attorney that works for YOU. Get your own will, POA, living will, medical proxy, health care proxy (some states require 4 separate documents some will let you do it all in one document). Show them to her and tell her you have done it and what they say.

Before you see the lawyer:
1. write out your-her situation in bullet form (this will save you money explaining the situation multiple times and keep the discussion focused.
2. Word of mouth is best recommendation but if you can't get a personal recomendation interview at least 3. Many will give you a free first (short) interview.
3. find out what elder services are available in your community. Are there senior centers, meals on wheels, community transportation?
4. have a family meeting to lay out (in writing) what tasks each is willing to do and how much money each is willing to contribute
5. if she won't pay someone to do yardwork etc, ask sibllings to contribut so much a month to a pot and you hire someone to do those things (it's easier to do that for outside tasks than cleaning & cooking inside her house)

"When people say there is a 5 year lookback - does that mean that if her assetts are in a will or a Trust before the 5 year period that the Government or Medicaid can not touch it?"

Here's a link to a great site that explains the situation quite clearly: http://elder-law.lawyers.com/Transferring-of-Assets-for-Medicaid-Look-Back-Periods.html

Gee-- this crap happens to a lot of us. I think the older we get-- some feel a profound loss of control over many things-some cope better then others--
She needs to stop talking to you about this-it does seem abusive--a bit of splitting--by not doing anything --the assets will get divided---many who get money are in no way worthy of it.. Trust me I know I am dealing with my mothers very large estate-- she was very abusive-- made many changes-- and left some things alone-- it is a mess.

I am very sorry you are dealing with this--

The 5 yr. lookback period means when applying for medicaide they can took back the past 5 years and if you have given away large am'ts of money or made a trust agreement within 5 years of applying for medicaide that money will have to be paid back . If the person needs a NH placement they will be self pay until that money is paid back/ 4hope it sounds she is being crafty getting you to do all her work and she knows damn well what she is doing -detach yourself and do not feel you have to do anything for her that you do not want to do -let her hire someone to do her bills and yard work-you should read the discussion bt cmagnum on dysfunctional families to get more imformation on this narcissic women-she is playing you for a fool- take away her power to verbally abuse you-take your power back.

yes i would defintely find out about the mortgage