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For a power of attorney agent to remove a body from a nursing home to a funeral home after a person dies and the power of attorney ends for that agent?
I would think the funeral home removes the deceased which was my experience with my late mother. What you are describing is that this POA literally removed the body themselves which seems quite extreme and unlikely.
When people say “against the law” they are usually mean that it’s an offense. I doubt if this is theft, or that there is a special crime involved. 'Body snatching' used to be an offense way back in the days when bodies had a value for medical purposes, but that is long gone. I have never heard of the body being treated as an asset under the control of the Executor (assuming that there is a will which has appointed an executor who is not the POA). This is an unusual dispute.
Clearly the POA and Executor (if any) aren’t on good terms. Perhaps they favor different funeral homes? Or is this just an argument about power? If the POA contracts for an expensive funeral, they probably pay for it themselves rather than the cost coming out of the estate – which is managed by the Executor.
However if the POA is trying to arrange a completely different funeral type or location, then yes they don’t have the right to do that and the Executor should step in. (And it took me several minutes to think that this might be what is behind the question)
If possible, I’d move past this situation, which is already upsetting enough.
Too true. It's ridiculous not to have the POA also be the Executor of a Will. This saves a whole lot of headache to just make that person or persons one in the same.
In my state there’s a form called Disposition of Bodily Remains. It is signed and notarized during estate planning. The person signing cedes control of his dead body to someone who will follow his wishes.
When my brother died (No POA or will), I made all the arrangements with the funeral home to pick up his body and for the cremation, but they needed to get my niece's (his daughter's) signature to proceed. She was the official next of kin. The State has rules about who that would be. I imagine sometimes there could be conflict, however. If he had no children or parent, but several siblings. Probably any one of us could have signed, I would hate to have had to collect signatures from all seven of us.
Older posts have shown that there can be real disagreements about cremation or burial, burial in the 'home town' or locally, whether to comply with religious rules and requirements, shared grave with the first wife or the second, .....
Yes it's pointless, unless you think that it affects entry to the next life.
As part of the Medicaid spend down process, it is often recommended that final expenses be prepaid, so I can see the POA having done that. Then it would be appropriate to give the nursing home the contact number to activate the arrangements if the principal passes.
Putting funeral instructions in a will is sometimes discouraged because it may take a while for the will to be located and for the executor to take on their duties. The executor would be responsible for using the deceased’s funds to pay any remaining bills due after death.
My Mom had a health care power of attorney giving her agent authority to donate organs and follow burial instructions, which were prepaid. This specific HCPOA section remained effective for this after death.
I would expect the actual removal to be done by the appropriate service provider.
What to do after death was part of the admissions paperwork when my mom went to live at the nursing home, and it was also documented when she was receiving still palliative care at home.
The death must be officially confirmed (usually by a nurse who then contacts a doctor). This person also fills out the forms certifying the cause, time, and place of death. The family is informed. All medical equipment or treatments are removed from the body. The body is "prepped" (cleaned, to ensure sanitary transport). The funeral home is contacted to come get the body.
It may vary slightly by facility and state.
The PoA authority ends the minute someone is confirmed deceased. Then the Executor takes over, carrying out the funeral and burial wishes, if the deceased left instructions. Then the Executor carries out the instructions for the distriburtion of any estate in the Last Will.
So, in your question, the NH was probably carrying out its legal protocol and had nothing to do with the PoA making the decision to move the body to the funeral home. This is exactly how it went when my Aunt passed away in rehab this January (in FL).
Generally in the dying process the funeral home is discussed with the POA. Death seldom comes this unexpected. In lieu of that the POA, if a family member, is almost always allowed to make this transfer as it must be done in a timely manner. It will then fall to the executor to follow a will, if there is one, in terms of funeral arrangements, services or lack of them, cremation or burial as stipulated in a will. If there is none then next of kin will be called upon to make these arrangements; if that is a next of kind serving as POA during this time, then usually that person will be used as the next of kin.
This is a question best put to the nursing home itself as they are the ones following the laws and dictates of your OWN STATE. If you are executor and do have instructions be certain the nursing home is aware.
My Moms funeral was prepaid so all funeral arrangements made before death. I do not remember calling the funeral director. I remember getting a call from the home. I remember being asked if I wanted to see her and saying no. We literally had left her side 20min before she was pronounced dead. I have a feeling the Nurse had the info and called for me. Then the funeral home came and got her. I doubt if the home released the body to anyone but the funeral home.
Really, who else could oversee the final thing but the POA. They were probably the one who set everything up. The Executor cannot take over until Probate. They need a short certificate to handle finances. Even though the person has been assigned does not mean Probate has to except them. Probate can not be started until 10 days (or so) after death. So everything is pretty much in limbo till then. So very important that you make plans before your death. Even if its just on paper with your wishes, witnessed and signed. Then put in ur important papers and someone close given a copy. For me I live in a small town and I have known the director all my life. So I may be able to give him my instructions and have them put on file.
riverdale.. Wow I did not take the post as the person took the body THEMSELVES!! That adds a whole new spin to my thinking! yuck... I can't imagine any place allowing this!
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Clearly the POA and Executor (if any) aren’t on good terms. Perhaps they favor different funeral homes? Or is this just an argument about power? If the POA contracts for an expensive funeral, they probably pay for it themselves rather than the cost coming out of the estate – which is managed by the Executor.
However if the POA is trying to arrange a completely different funeral type or location, then yes they don’t have the right to do that and the Executor should step in. (And it took me several minutes to think that this might be what is behind the question)
If possible, I’d move past this situation, which is already upsetting enough.
Too true. It's ridiculous not to have the POA also be the Executor of a Will.
This saves a whole lot of headache to just make that person or persons one in the same.
Getting into a fuss about this seems pointless, though.
Yes it's pointless, unless you think that it affects entry to the next life.
Putting funeral instructions in a will is sometimes discouraged because it may take a while for the will to be located and for the executor to take on their duties. The executor would be responsible for using the deceased’s funds to pay any remaining bills due after death.
My Mom had a health care power of attorney giving her agent authority to donate organs and follow burial instructions, which were prepaid. This specific HCPOA section remained effective for this after death.
I would expect the actual removal to be done by the appropriate service provider.
The death must be officially confirmed (usually by a nurse who then contacts a doctor). This person also fills out the forms certifying the cause, time, and place of death. The family is informed. All medical equipment or treatments are removed from the body. The body is "prepped" (cleaned, to ensure sanitary transport). The funeral home is contacted to come get the body.
It may vary slightly by facility and state.
The PoA authority ends the minute someone is confirmed deceased. Then the Executor takes over, carrying out the funeral and burial wishes, if the deceased left instructions. Then the Executor carries out the instructions for the distriburtion of any estate in the Last Will.
So, in your question, the NH was probably carrying out its legal protocol and had nothing to do with the PoA making the decision to move the body to the funeral home. This is exactly how it went when my Aunt passed away in rehab this January (in FL).
This is a question best put to the nursing home itself as they are the ones following the laws and dictates of your OWN STATE. If you are executor and do have instructions be certain the nursing home is aware.
Really, who else could oversee the final thing but the POA. They were probably the one who set everything up. The Executor cannot take over until Probate. They need a short certificate to handle finances. Even though the person has been assigned does not mean Probate has to except them. Probate can not be started until 10 days (or so) after death. So everything is pretty much in limbo till then. So very important that you make plans before your death. Even if its just on paper with your wishes, witnessed and signed. Then put in ur important papers and someone close given a copy. For me I live in a small town and I have known the director all my life. So I may be able to give him my instructions and have them put on file.