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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Since your caregiver took your elder out as a treat, and your elder cannot go alone, then yes, I feel you should pay for the lunch for both of them.
You have given us almost no information here. If this becomes frequent have a little sit-down with the worker and tell her/him that you cannot pay for lunches, so going to a restaurant is likely not going to work. There are other ways to have outings.
Yes, you should. My parents’ caregivers took them out, and my parents were happy that they could do that with them. At the end of the meal, parent forked over the credit card for both meals.
I didn’t like it when one of them would order the biggest thing on the menu, eat a few bites, and then have it bagged so she could take it home to eat with her husband for dinner. She was just a little thing and we knew what she was doing. I thought it was a very brash and uncalled for thing to do because she was paid well. Mom never complained, though.
When my Dad had a caregiver, any time he had a doctor's appointment that was late morning, the caregiver would drive him, afterwards they would stop at Burger King for lunch. Dad would use his credit card to pay. This was kinda like a treat for Dad, him getting out of the house even if it meant a doctor appointment, and the fun of going to a fast food restaurant. I had no problem with that, as it was nice that Dad had a change of scenery.
Sometimes the caregiver would pickup a breakfast sandwich at a fast food to bring to Dad on her way in for her shift. She never asked for a reimbursement. I feel seeing Dad's eyes light up and enjoying that breakfast was payment for her :)
It all depends on how much of an expense that your love one could afford. And how often you would consider. If your love one enjoys getting out, it is well worth the cost. But I would request a receipt from the caregiver.
I would pay for both, the main reason is because I think it is good for a person to be out and about, socialize. Being cooped up all the time is a terrible thing.
There is so little for them to look forward to, why not encourage and support it?
Most caregivers don't get paid enough to enjoy going out to eat regularly. So it's either pay for the caregiver or the client can sit at home doing nothing. Who wants to sit in a restaurant with someone who doesn't order anything?
I gave my caregiver a budget of incidentals (movie tickets, meals, shopping) that I could support monthly for mom and her to enjoy. Mom had a card-a debit card that I kept loaded with the funds. After a while, the caregiver would carry the card for their outings. It made mom feel good to pickup the check and I was not surprised with expenses because she stayed in budget. The caregiver was good about texting me their outings and pics. It didn’t happen all the time but when it did, mom was elated. Later, when mom became too confused about leaving her comfort zone, the outings ended but I still have the pics of their fun.
No. She can bring in her snack or eat at home. I would reimburse but you need all the receipts. Don't trust anyone. Sorry to be like that but I have had bad caregivers and people who stole over 2000 $ from me twice.
In all of my years of service regardless of how well or how close I got to a client and teir family, I never failed to produce a receipt for anything. It's not a trust issue. When money's involved there has to be a receipt with everyone. That way things don't get complicated or misunderstood. I've had clients who never had access to any money. So I'd buy their groceries and other things myself, save the receipts every week and their daughter would write me a separate check from my pay for things purchased for the client. Why would you allow your caregiver to have access to your funds so they could rip you off for $2,000? There's also something called client responsibility. It's up to the client or their representative to make sure that the caregiver or the mail man or the landscaper or anyone else for that matter, doesn't have access to their money and valuables? Don't keep the checkbook, your debit card with the pin written on the sleeve, your jewelry, or anything else valuable out on the kitchen table. Chances are, someone is going to steal it at some point.
The definitive answer would be in the contract that you have with the caregiver.
However, if you don't have a contract or the contract doesn't state the specifics, I think the circumstance would dictate whether the meal or snack is reimbursed or not.
For instance, if the caregiver is taking the loved one to an appointment and it is around lunch or breakfast or dinner, then yes, it would be expected that you would reimburse both of them. If the time is snack time, then yes, both meals should be reimbursed.
If you don't like the cost of the meal, you pay for the first time for both of them, and get the parameters in writing for future occurrences.
If this is an ongoing occurrence or not associated with an appointment, then I would pay for the first time, and put your parameters in writing for future outings.
Are you paying for mileage also? Do you have limits on that also? If not, you should.
If the caregiver is setting the appointments, I would suggest that you provide a monthly or per day allowance for outside meals.
My sister's BIL would take the Mom out for a ride, then follow it up with a very fancy, expensive restaurant before taking her home. She would have never gone to that restaurant on her own. He even had the audacity to order an extra meal so that he could eat it later. She paid for it all, then complained about it to others. Once my sister's husband, who reviewed and authorized finances of the Mom, saw the charges, he put a per day limit on the total cost of meals. BIL decided not to take Mom out since. Very sad, however, not out of character.
It is good to have parameters around these types of things. You could always say that higher amounts need to be approved in advance, especially if it is a day with special circumstances.
I would say yes. If this is a financial problem tell the caregiver that the lunches out have to be limited to 2 or 3 a month. How often does this happen? If it is every week or a few times a week then I would say that is excessive and you need to set some boundaries. Who is the one that suggests lunch out? If it is the caregiver, set boundaries. If it is the person being cared for establish boundaries with the caregiver as to how much "authority" the care recipient has. If this is a lunch out after an appointment that the caregiver has transported your loved one to then paying for both would be appropriate.
yes, I do think so. If it becomes too hard to manage on your end financially — for instance, if there are very costly bills for the food ordered, perhaps you could tactfully mention to the caregiver that, as much as you’d like to, your budget just doesn’t allow for frequent, costly food ordered out. It’s far different to order tea or coffee & a muffin, or a 3-course meal plus dessert, tip, etc! Good luck working this out!
I have a lovely helper helping to care for my neighbor. She goes out of her way to be loving and kind. I personally would pay for both. My friend doesn’t expect this, but I feel she deserves it.
It truly is a decision that needs to come from the heart.
If this " private" caregiver is contracted through a service( business), things of this nature should be defined up front via the initial paperwork with the company administration.
If you are ' employing ' a person independent of any organization of your choice , then you and the caregiver need to have an up front and continuing open conversation about both of your expectations.
There are many many many ' risk management ' issues when having caregivers in the home ( whether through an agency or privately ' employed').
My old client LOVED to eat out--but her choices were always very inexpensive places--a drive thru or a small pizza place. She always paid, I kept receipts, but her family couldn't have cared less. She was not allowed red meat at home (daughter's dietary issues, SHE didn't eat red meat)--so of course her mom craved it!
I don't think she ever spent more than $5 on me. The socialization of just getting out and about was worth it to her.
I made sure her whole family knew exactly what was going on--all 5 of them--and lucky for me, they loved me and loved that their MOM loved me and so we had a good working relationship.
Being completely transparent with finances is important. It's also part of a job where you are not clocking in with an office and you're held to your 'honesty'.
Great advice, I would only add for me if the family objected to paying for an outing I would no longer feel comfortable working for them ( I realize this thankfully was not the case with your clients family but I just added it for my perspective)
if any friend would offer to take care of your mother and take her out to lunch you would be grateful. Do the same for your mother, and caretaker !!!!!
I would certainly pay for a caregiver’s lunch. Caregivers don’t make a big salary. They aren’t able to eat out frequently.
If a person enjoys eating out and the caregiver is nice enough to take them out to eat, please pay for the caregiver’s lunch.
I bought my mother’s caregiver her favorite snacks for her to have when she served my mother a snack. She told me that she appreciated it and that no one else had ever been as thoughtful.
Mom loved this caregiver and she was so kind to my mom. I wanted to show my appreciation to her.
I would. The caregivers that helped out were “there”, truly more than familyx1000. They were both family and friends, caretakers and lifelines. Mom and Dad would have gladly treated them.
it is important to get your parent out in the world. Since you can’t always be there doing it yourself, this is more healthy, stimulating and fun for the elder than staying at home. Field trips are also more work for a care provider than staying at home.
I’d give the caregiver a budget for both of them. That way mom and the caregiver can figure out if they need a once a week special meal or a more frequent (coffee, ice cream, fast food) excuse to get out of the house.
Here’s a question: is the caregiver working during this lunch or is it a break where s/he can do whatever they want (including leave the premises)? Aren’t these lunches usually the choice of the employer?
I worked for a financial institution. Whenever my presence was required during a meal, the meal was provided by my employer. I’d hope that an employee providing personal services on the clock would not be expected to pay for their own meal.
I’m assuming since you’ve placed her in charge of caring for her that you find her to be valuable to your mother. While your not required by law is not the question imo, it’s something that is a good idea for you to do as it shows you appreciate the excellent care she takes of your mother. Dining out w the caregiver from time to time provides a nice treat and outing for your mother, since caregivers are typically underpaid even when they’re paid decently compared to other caregivers in most cases you don’t want your caregiver to partly pay for an experience that’s designed for your mother. Of course if the caregiver was eating out by herself that wouldn’t be your responsibility morally to pay for that. The dining out experience is for your mother’s benefit, I would never ask a caregiver to pay part of it- good caregivers are quite difficult to find and hold onto, in large part bc of how they’re undervalued so as long as it’s not extravagant restaurant, and it’s occasional by all means yes cover the cost for your mother having the nice experience of eating out, she would feel awkward if the caregiver didn’t join her in a meal
You asked if you are supposed to reimburse for both of them.
If you choose to reimburse for the caregiver, that is your choice. You pay for the caregiver's ticket and watch it become a habit. She will take loved one out everyday.
Would that be so bad? A lonely elderly person who gets taken out every day? Great if it becomes a habit. If the elderly person can go out every day and wants to then I don't see the problem. Families often forget that the "money" actually still belongs to the elderly person. If some nice caregiver like myself back in the day is willing to drag a wheelcair in and out of their car trunk, put wear and tear on their own car, rig up a double-diaper on a client to prevent embarrassing "accidents", and does all of this with good grace that makes the lonely old person feel like a friend and not a client.... Then I'd say you'd be getting a real good deal paying for my lunch and movie tickets every day. Clients and their families paid for my lunches, movie tickets, manis/pedis, salon services, spa days, and entertainments for 25 years. Most of them were usually just happy that their LO was being taken out and they weren't the ones who had to do it. The ones who refused to pay for me usually had a sad elder. I would have to explain to the poor old client that I couldn't afford to go out with them. Most of them would complain and give their family hell until they came up with the money to go out. If going out to eat or something every day with the caregiver makes an elderly person happy, why not just pay for it?
Just a suggestion to posters. Check profile first. These old questions are popping up more and more.
I guess that no one noticed that the OP hasn’t been responding to the postings.
Anyway, the kitty page is up instead of her profile. So, all of you are posting in vain. The OP is no longer around.
It is an interesting topic. I posted early on. It’s worth discussing if you’re interested in the topic. Just don’t expect the OP to answer.
They probably got locked out of the site; therefore the kitty page came up and they didn’t feel like contacting AgingCare to remedy the issue.
Sunny and Alva, great point about paying for lunch is only an option if this is affordable for the elderly person.
Caregivers don’t know an elderly person’s private business. They may need to save money for funeral expenses, etc.
I would gladly pay for someone’s lunch but the cost would certainly add up on a daily basis.
I did provide lunch for my mom’s caregiver who came to our home. Sometimes. I gave her money to order a pizza for herself and her child for dinner. She was a single mom. She was so very kind to my mother and I wanted to show my appreciation. She certainly didn’t expect me to buy her dinner.
I don’t go out to eat on a daily basis. If I were a caregiver I wouldn’t expect to be taken out daily for a meal.
No one would want to feel like they were being taken advantage of. If a person can afford it and wants to eat out daily it’s a different story. Then, so what, if they eat out daily for breakfast, lunch and dinner!
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
You have given us almost no information here. If this becomes frequent have a little sit-down with the worker and tell her/him that you cannot pay for lunches, so going to a restaurant is likely not going to work. There are other ways to have outings.
I didn’t like it when one of them would order the biggest thing on the menu, eat a few bites, and then have it bagged so she could take it home to eat with her husband for dinner. She was just a little thing and we knew what she was doing. I thought it was a very brash and uncalled for thing to do because she was paid well. Mom never complained, though.
When my Dad had a caregiver, any time he had a doctor's appointment that was late morning, the caregiver would drive him, afterwards they would stop at Burger King for lunch. Dad would use his credit card to pay. This was kinda like a treat for Dad, him getting out of the house even if it meant a doctor appointment, and the fun of going to a fast food restaurant. I had no problem with that, as it was nice that Dad had a change of scenery.
Sometimes the caregiver would pickup a breakfast sandwich at a fast food to bring to Dad on her way in for her shift. She never asked for a reimbursement. I feel seeing Dad's eyes light up and enjoying that breakfast was payment for her :)
It all depends on how much of an expense that your love one could afford. And how often you would consider. If your love one enjoys getting out, it is well worth the cost. But I would request a receipt from the caregiver.
There is so little for them to look forward to, why not encourage and support it?
Most caregivers don't get paid enough to enjoy going out to eat regularly.
So it's either pay for the caregiver or the client can sit at home doing nothing.
Who wants to sit in a restaurant with someone who doesn't order anything?
In all of my years of service regardless of how well or how close I got to a client and teir family, I never failed to produce a receipt for anything.
It's not a trust issue. When money's involved there has to be a receipt with everyone. That way things don't get complicated or misunderstood.
I've had clients who never had access to any money. So I'd buy their groceries and other things myself, save the receipts every week and their daughter would write me a separate check from my pay for things purchased for the client.
Why would you allow your caregiver to have access to your funds so they could rip you off for $2,000?
There's also something called client responsibility. It's up to the client or their representative to make sure that the caregiver or the mail man or the landscaper or anyone else for that matter, doesn't have access to their money and valuables?
Don't keep the checkbook, your debit card with the pin written on the sleeve, your jewelry, or anything else valuable out on the kitchen table. Chances are, someone is going to steal it at some point.
However, if you don't have a contract or the contract doesn't state the specifics, I think the circumstance would dictate whether the meal or snack is reimbursed or not.
For instance, if the caregiver is taking the loved one to an appointment and it is around lunch or breakfast or dinner, then yes, it would be expected that you would reimburse both of them. If the time is snack time, then yes, both meals should be reimbursed.
If you don't like the cost of the meal, you pay for the first time for both of them, and get the parameters in writing for future occurrences.
If this is an ongoing occurrence or not associated with an appointment, then I would pay for the first time, and put your parameters in writing for future outings.
Are you paying for mileage also? Do you have limits on that also? If not, you should.
If the caregiver is setting the appointments, I would suggest that you provide a monthly or per day allowance for outside meals.
My sister's BIL would take the Mom out for a ride, then follow it up with a very fancy, expensive restaurant before taking her home. She would have never gone to that restaurant on her own. He even had the audacity to order an extra meal so that he could eat it later. She paid for it all, then complained about it to others. Once my sister's husband, who reviewed and authorized finances of the Mom, saw the charges, he put a per day limit on the total cost of meals. BIL decided not to take Mom out since. Very sad, however, not out of character.
It is good to have parameters around these types of things. You could always say that higher amounts need to be approved in advance, especially if it is a day with special circumstances.
If this is a financial problem tell the caregiver that the lunches out have to be limited to 2 or 3 a month.
How often does this happen? If it is every week or a few times a week then I would say that is excessive and you need to set some boundaries.
Who is the one that suggests lunch out? If it is the caregiver, set boundaries. If it is the person being cared for establish boundaries with the caregiver as to how much "authority" the care recipient has.
If this is a lunch out after an appointment that the caregiver has transported your loved one to then paying for both would be appropriate.
I have a lovely helper helping to care for my neighbor. She goes out of her way to be loving and kind. I personally would pay for both. My friend doesn’t expect this, but I feel she deserves it.
It truly is a decision that needs to come from the heart.
If you are ' employing ' a person independent of any organization of your choice , then you and the caregiver need to have an up front and continuing open conversation about both of your expectations.
There are many many many ' risk management ' issues when having caregivers in the home ( whether through an agency or privately ' employed').
You may want to seek more info on the above ....
I don't think she ever spent more than $5 on me. The socialization of just getting out and about was worth it to her.
I made sure her whole family knew exactly what was going on--all 5 of them--and lucky for me, they loved me and loved that their MOM loved me and so we had a good working relationship.
Being completely transparent with finances is important. It's also part of a job where you are not clocking in with an office and you're held to your 'honesty'.
If a person enjoys eating out and the caregiver is nice enough to take them out to eat, please pay for the caregiver’s lunch.
I bought my mother’s caregiver her favorite snacks for her to have when she served my mother a snack. She told me that she appreciated it and that no one else had ever been as thoughtful.
Mom loved this caregiver and she was so kind to my mom. I wanted to show my appreciation to her.
I would. The caregivers that helped out were “there”, truly more than familyx1000. They were both family and friends, caretakers and lifelines. Mom and Dad would have gladly treated them.
it is important to get your parent out in the world. Since you can’t always be there doing it yourself, this is more healthy, stimulating and fun for the elder than staying at home. Field trips are also more work for a care provider than staying at home.
If the eating out is happening several times a week, maybe not, however if it gets your person out and about, maybe it's worth it.
I worked for a financial institution. Whenever my presence was required during a meal, the meal was provided by my employer. I’d hope that an employee providing personal services on the clock would not be expected to pay for their own meal.
If you choose to reimburse for the caregiver, that is your choice. You pay for the caregiver's ticket and watch it become a habit. She will take loved one out everyday.
Would that be so bad? A lonely elderly person who gets taken out every day?
Great if it becomes a habit. If the elderly person can go out every day and wants to then I don't see the problem.
Families often forget that the "money" actually still belongs to the elderly person.
If some nice caregiver like myself back in the day is willing to drag a wheelcair in and out of their car trunk, put wear and tear on their own car, rig up a double-diaper on a client to prevent embarrassing "accidents", and does all of this with good grace that makes the lonely old person feel like a friend and not a client....
Then I'd say you'd be getting a real good deal paying for my lunch and movie tickets every day.
Clients and their families paid for my lunches, movie tickets, manis/pedis, salon services, spa days, and entertainments for 25 years. Most of them were usually just happy that their LO was being taken out and they weren't the ones who had to do it.
The ones who refused to pay for me usually had a sad elder. I would have to explain to the poor old client that I couldn't afford to go out with them. Most of them would complain and give their family hell until they came up with the money to go out.
If going out to eat or something every day with the caregiver makes an elderly person happy, why not just pay for it?
I guess that no one noticed that the OP hasn’t been responding to the postings.
Anyway, the kitty page is up instead of her profile. So, all of you are posting in vain. The OP is no longer around.
It is an interesting topic. I posted early on. It’s worth discussing if you’re interested in the topic. Just don’t expect the OP to answer.
They probably got locked out of the site; therefore the kitty page came up and they didn’t feel like contacting AgingCare to remedy the issue.
Sunny and Alva, great point about paying for lunch is only an option if this is affordable for the elderly person.
Caregivers don’t know an elderly person’s private business. They may need to save money for funeral expenses, etc.
I would gladly pay for someone’s lunch but the cost would certainly add up on a daily basis.
I did provide lunch for my mom’s caregiver who came to our home. Sometimes. I gave her money to order a pizza for herself and her child for dinner. She was a single mom. She was so very kind to my mother and I wanted to show my appreciation. She certainly didn’t expect me to buy her dinner.
I don’t go out to eat on a daily basis. If I were a caregiver I wouldn’t expect to be taken out daily for a meal.
No one would want to feel like they were being taken advantage of. If a person can afford it and wants to eat out daily it’s a different story. Then, so what, if they eat out daily for breakfast, lunch and dinner!