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From my moms acct at end of month and pay my credit card for those purchases. Is this ok to do if I am keeping the statements tgst dhow the paper trail.
Continue this practice only if you do not have other siblings that will benefit from your parent's estate. Otherwise, you will need to save every receipt and statement when one of them demands to see "why you are paying yourself." It might be easier to get a credit card solely for the purpose of your parent's expenses - in their name and with you as POA - and pay from their own accounts at the end of the month.
I would presume it depends on who you feel / know your mom's finances will be accountable 'to' when it is time to provided financial records / expenditures / statements -
As someone said below, keep clear, meticulous records. Keep every receipt.
If this is for taxes, ask your / her accountant / tax person. If you are inquiring for Medi-caid or another government entity, ask them.
You can't be too careful or save too much documentation (i.e., receipts).
How long have you been doing this? If over a year, who are you/r mom accountable to?
Is there a reason you want to (continue) to charge on your cr card vs hers? or a joint card or joint bank account? (I understand if you get points or something for using ... I did that too for AmTrak train travel 'points' for many years w/clients. I keep every receipt - got / get reimbursed.). There may be different criteria since this is your mother and I had this arrangement (get reimbursed) from clients' expenses' I would purchase). I provided an invoice for "direct services" and a separate section for "expense reimbursement" - date of purchase, what, where with copy of receipts). Then, for my own tax records, I showed check amount and 1) payment for my services/work and 2) reimbursement for expenses) - to make sure I wasn't being taxed on reimbursable expenses. I haven't had any problem over the last 12+ years.
I kept a separate excel worksheet for all of my Mom's expenses and whether she or I or someone else paid for it. Then on that same sheet, I also recorded the date of when I got reimbursed or whomever got reimbursed for that particular item.
I also kept all the credit card receipts itemizing what got purchased. People did not get reimbursed unless I had an itemized receipt.
It was very handy for tax time because then I had all of her expenses itemized, regardless of who paid for it, so that I could review her potential tax deductions (e.g. property tax, charity, prescriptions, doctor's office).
I was thinking that this trail would be needed to justify why my Mom transferred money from her account to mine, in case anyone asked.
If you use your card for mom's care, and then are reimbursed for said purchases--just keep really meticulous records.
Ideally, you shouldn't co-mingle funds, but in most cases, that just isn't possible.
My DH is now executing his mom's estate. I am shocked at how much money flew back and forth from his YS and his mom. I don't CARE..it's just messy and DH is calling YS daily to clear up purchases and such.
Dh says it's fine b/c he totally trusts his sibs. Well, he does, I don't and I don't want something coming back to bite him.
It won't be a problem with the sibling, but with their spouse, who, in my opinion, has NOTHING to say in the execution of finances. The only person who worries me is YS's DH. I remember him being way too involved when DH executed his dad's estate. He and YS got the 'lion's share' in that estate and will with MIL's too. It kept BIL from fussing. ( My DH won't 'do' confrontation).
I flipped FIL's condo, all by myself and BIL show up at random times and demand to see the receipts. Made me so mad, I could have slapped him. HE wouldn't allow me to charge the estate for my time and I was only 'allowed' a budget of $5K.
Then when the remodel was over, BIL sold the condo the day it listed for full asking price and took a $10K commission.
I kept absolutely perfect records and BIL made me hand them over. I'm still steaming over this and this was 20 years ago.
Keep perfect records. You never know what's going to come down the pike.
No. Use your mom's money for her care. But, if you have POA for her, add your name to her account to get her bills paid. When it comes to Medicare someday, it gets spent down from your mom's money only, none from you.
When I was conservator for my mom, I kept one of her old credit cards and we added my name while she was still able to communicate her wishes. Her name was the primary name on the card and I was the only keeper of the card. It streamlined my accounting for probate because the paper bills were itemized and it was easy to use the state probate accounting form to report one bill (credit) and any thing like medical supplies. Occasionally I would make a mistake and pull out my similar credit card. This required me to do more paperwork including putting an itemized copy of my cc bill into her files to justify paying myself. when she passed I closed out the account with a death certificate. I also had my name on one of her old long time bank accounts for the same purposes but also for her SS checks and any other retirement income that was direct deposited.
I do want to make a statement with joint POAs, Many post on the Forum that one person should be handling the accounts with the second as a back up. In addition to the bank account. I had my brother's name without holding any of the checkbooks or credit cards. He was my back up if anything happened to me. Only the court recognized me for filing paperwork but it would have allowed enough time to keep bills paid and my brother would have gone to probate to become legal conservator if needed. His name was also on my mom's POA it is just I had the first legal standing and was willing to accept accountability. It is just that during the in between stage, when mom was being scammed, her POA and the way it was written, was not recognized at the time.
I did the same with my BIL I would pay for things then get paid back from the payee acct.
One thing I learned after all the things that happened to me is to keep very good records of what you spent, the receipts of all you spent because there might be one day someone turns you in. For me it was being turned into social security I was my BIL's rep payee. It was the last straw for me family can be cruel. If anything to do with money keep the receipts for everything. I did that and that is what saved me from going to jail. I proved I spent every dime on his care. I also kept written records of what I spent on him.
When my daddy was very ill and I took over for him - I added my name to his credit card easy over the internet. Then I just made a file for all his items - invoices from the facility, hair cut receipts, incontinence supplies etc... anything that was his. After he passed away and it was time to do his taxes I grab that folder took it to the tax guy and it was that easy. Just keep all the receipts that is what is your proof! Blessings
I kept all receipts for things I bought Mom out of pocket. At the eom I wrote myself a check for the amt due me. I put the receipts in an envelope with the check number, month and amout on the outside of an evnvelope and filed it. Moms bank statement was proof the money went in a nd went out. I do not own a bankcard and I did not allow Mom one.
My mom’s debit card was cancelled when my sister and I enacted the poa form…my mom has late stage dementia and is in her own home where we have care for her. I use debit card to access her money every month to pay for those things that require a credit card to pay.
If you are joint on this account the you should still be able to have a debit or credit card, but you will be the primary. In this case you should still keep an accurate paper trail with receipts.
Put as much as you can on auto Bill Pay through the bank for her monthly expenses and the rest, set up an amazon.com account connected to a credit card. Amazon generates digital invoices that stay in the account and is itemized, with dates and where things were shipped.
I am get pus along with my sister. We have a joint acct with our mom’s money in there (investment money). My sister doesn’t want that acct used and so I have been doing it the way I stated in my original question. Now there is not enough to cover the monthly things I use for our mom and because we have to act together I think it may be difficult to get a visa as one half of a POA and we do not have cheques so this seemed the easiest solution. My sister does not want me to use my personal visa anymore and do not sure what to do. I’m thinking I will just have to start accessing the joint acct to pay for these things with a POA credit card…also we live in different communities so it is difficult to go to bank together etc as we live about 1100 kms from each other. I guess I just want to make sure that as long as I have a good paper trail accounting for what I am taking from my moms acct to my visa is ok and I’m not coming anything illegal doing it this way.
While I'm sure it's fine as long as you keep good records I used my mom's credit card for all of her purchases, for me that simplified things and there was no chance of confusion; I also like that there was a monthly statement.
Katjacks, any time I used my own credit card to purchase items my Dad needed, I made a copy of that receipt and placed it into a 3-ring binder. Some of those narrow receipts are a bear to deal with so copying them onto 8.5x11 paper was so much easier. Those mile long drug store receipts, just cut off the first section to use.
At the end of the month, I wrote myself a check from a checking account which had both my Dad's name and my name. I made a copy of that check before mailing to place in the 3-ring binder.
If you are POA you can pay for your mother's things almost any way you choose, and you are allowed as POA to reimburse yourself. As you say, the important part is keeping CAREFUL and METICULOUS files of expenditure. I would say then, that the easiest was to pay is by check from an account set up that belongs to your mother and checks are signed by her name with you as POA and signee.
If you have questions about any of this do know that an elder law attorney, one hour of time, is ALSO paid by the POA documents as "expert advice" which you are allowed to seek. They can explain how best to do things.
The paper trail is the most important thing. You can also keep diaries of expenditures daily. Wishing you the best.
I was advised by our elder law attorney that while that is probably ok, it is much better to use your mom’s money directly. Use her credit card or checkbook. It will save hassle with Medicaid if/when you reach that point.
This is a risk and an unnecessary hassle. Doesn't your Mom have a debit card/ATM card from her own bank? Why not use that? And still keep the receipts...
My 104-yr old Aunt just had her credit card cancelled because her sister passed and was the primary account holder. She was rejected by the same cc company for her own card. Then she opened a money market account at her bank and they gave her a Visa card right then and there. But she could have used her debit card (the Visa gives her points, etc).
If you use the current method you need to keep all receipt that show what the items were and then only reimburse yourself the exact amount (no rounding up or down).
I replied but it is like a question again as I did not initially respond to you directly. I am POA along with my sister for our mom. Makes it difficult to act together as we live about 1200kms away from each other. My sister doesn’t want me to use my own credit card anymore and I am unsure how she wants me to pay for these things that require a credit card. Our mom was a victim of bank fraud prior to us becoming poas and we had cheques and credit cards cancelled. It is becoming difficult to work together with my sister and I just want to have my moms expenses paid in the easiest way for me and be able to justify what I had to pay every month to my sister. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thank you.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
As someone said below, keep clear, meticulous records.
Keep every receipt.
If this is for taxes, ask your / her accountant / tax person.
If you are inquiring for Medi-caid or another government entity, ask them.
You can't be too careful or save too much documentation (i.e., receipts).
How long have you been doing this?
If over a year, who are you/r mom accountable to?
Is there a reason you want to (continue) to charge on your cr card vs hers? or a joint card or joint bank account? (I understand if you get points or something for using ... I did that too for AmTrak train travel 'points' for many years w/clients. I keep every receipt - got / get reimbursed.). There may be different criteria since this is your mother and I had this arrangement (get reimbursed) from clients' expenses' I would purchase). I provided an invoice for "direct services" and a separate section for "expense reimbursement" - date of purchase, what, where with copy of receipts). Then, for my own tax records, I showed check amount and 1) payment for my services/work and 2) reimbursement for expenses) - to make sure I wasn't being taxed on reimbursable expenses. I haven't had any problem over the last 12+ years.
Gena / Touch Matters
I kept a separate excel worksheet for all of my Mom's expenses and whether she or I or someone else paid for it. Then on that same sheet, I also recorded the date of when I got reimbursed or whomever got reimbursed for that particular item.
I also kept all the credit card receipts itemizing what got purchased. People did not get reimbursed unless I had an itemized receipt.
It was very handy for tax time because then I had all of her expenses itemized, regardless of who paid for it, so that I could review her potential tax deductions (e.g. property tax, charity, prescriptions, doctor's office).
I was thinking that this trail would be needed to justify why my Mom transferred money from her account to mine, in case anyone asked.
Ideally, you shouldn't co-mingle funds, but in most cases, that just isn't possible.
My DH is now executing his mom's estate. I am shocked at how much money flew back and forth from his YS and his mom. I don't CARE..it's just messy and DH is calling YS daily to clear up purchases and such.
Dh says it's fine b/c he totally trusts his sibs. Well, he does, I don't and I don't want something coming back to bite him.
It won't be a problem with the sibling, but with their spouse, who, in my opinion, has NOTHING to say in the execution of finances. The only person who worries me is YS's DH. I remember him being way too involved when DH executed his dad's estate. He and YS got the 'lion's share' in that estate and will with MIL's too. It kept BIL from fussing. ( My DH won't 'do' confrontation).
I flipped FIL's condo, all by myself and BIL show up at random times and demand to see the receipts. Made me so mad, I could have slapped him. HE wouldn't allow me to charge the estate for my time and I was only 'allowed' a budget of $5K.
Then when the remodel was over, BIL sold the condo the day it listed for full asking price and took a $10K commission.
I kept absolutely perfect records and BIL made me hand them over. I'm still steaming over this and this was 20 years ago.
Keep perfect records. You never know what's going to come down the pike.
I do want to make a statement with joint POAs, Many post on the Forum that one person should be handling the accounts with the second as a back up. In addition to the bank account. I had my brother's name without holding any of the checkbooks or credit cards. He was my back up if anything happened to me. Only the court recognized me for filing paperwork but it would have allowed enough time to keep bills paid and my brother would have gone to probate to become legal conservator if needed. His name was also on my mom's POA it is just I had the first legal standing and was willing to accept accountability. It is just that during the in between stage, when mom was being scammed, her POA and the way it was written, was not recognized at the time.
One thing I learned after all the things that happened to me is to keep very good records of what you spent, the receipts of all you spent because there might be one day someone turns you in. For me it was being turned into social security I was my BIL's rep payee. It was the last straw for me family can be cruel. If anything to do with money keep the receipts for everything. I did that and that is what saved me from going to jail. I proved I spent every dime on his care. I also kept written records of what I spent on him.
Prayers
Just keep impeccable records, is all I'll say. Documentation with receipts for everything you are buying/being reimbursed for.
Put as much as you can on auto Bill Pay through the bank for her monthly expenses and the rest, set up an amazon.com account connected to a credit card. Amazon generates digital invoices that stay in the account and is itemized, with dates and where things were shipped.
At the end of the month, I wrote myself a check from a checking account which had both my Dad's name and my name. I made a copy of that check before mailing to place in the 3-ring binder.
As you say, the important part is keeping CAREFUL and METICULOUS files of expenditure. I would say then, that the easiest was to pay is by check from an account set up that belongs to your mother and checks are signed by her name with you as POA and signee.
If you have questions about any of this do know that an elder law attorney, one hour of time, is ALSO paid by the POA documents as "expert advice" which you are allowed to seek. They can explain how best to do things.
The paper trail is the most important thing. You can also keep diaries of expenditures daily.
Wishing you the best.
My 104-yr old Aunt just had her credit card cancelled because her sister passed and was the primary account holder. She was rejected by the same cc company for her own card. Then she opened a money market account at her bank and they gave her a Visa card right then and there. But she could have used her debit card (the Visa gives her points, etc).
If you use the current method you need to keep all receipt that show what the items were and then only reimburse yourself the exact amount (no rounding up or down).
Are you your Mom's PoA?