I take care of my elderly father. If he depletes his assets by paying me for his care, will he still have to wait 30 months for Medicaid?

Probably. I'd see an estate attorney about this - one who knows Medicaid well. Also, have any payment agreement drawn up legally. That might help. Still, you should have the help of an attorney who knows Medicaid laws - and your state laws.
Carol

Sarahjune: Why are you being paid for the care of your own father? Do you not take the legal subtraction of dependency ? ( both federal and state)?
What are you doing with this money that you take from him? Are you reporting it as income on your own tax return?

Boy N1K2R3....aren't YOU just a ray of friggin sunshine!!!

NIK2RS. You remind me of my oldest brother. I moved in with my mother and put a hold on my job for nearly a year. He like you thought I did not need any income. Well let me tell you, I got in all kinds of financial problems, could not pay any bills. So why does a caregiver need money? Apparantly you are rich.

Dear ShirleyAnn, Several questions and one answer comes to mind when I read your text. First, did you quit your job to take care of your mother? if so, the tax code allows a generous credit for Care of the Elderly. I assume you had "some" income...many sources come to mind for those without jobs....
Why was your brother involved? Did he contribute to the care of your mother? financially or physically? substantively? The last notation here is the answer to your comment. Yes, I am rich, and I'm also generous, educated and caring.

All this time on this forum, this is the first mention of tax credit for caring for the elderly.

Of course,the problem is, like with me, quitting our jobs and having NO income as the caregiving gig turns from the expected months to years on end. What good does a tax credit do? Oh, but everyone else has income from their pensions and investments. Silly me.

Oh, I am allowed to live with mom and get room and board and $10, as imposed by the public guardian. that/s 24/7 cept her 9 hours week at daycare, which I use for errands and shopping.

Shirley Ann,

I checked with my accountant 5 years ago when Mom moved in with me and since my mother receives social security, and I do not provide 100% of her expenses, she cannot be claimed as a dependent under the tax code. Also, you can only get back from the IRS what you paid in. If you only paid $600 for example, you could not get more back. $600 a year doesn't go a long way to pay for medication, food, clothes, respite care, etc. It disappoints me when I read comments like those from NIK2RS. The comments were not helpful for researching what exact help is available. I have no doubt NIK2RS is educated, caring and generous, but the comments need to have more substance and more supportive. The intent of the comments are easily misunderstood.

In most states, a parent can pay the child for needed care, if there is a written contract and the amount being paid is in line with what a private non-family member caregiver would charge.

There is no "30-month" waiting period for Medicaid. I think you are confusing this with the penalty for making a gift, which USED to be 30 months. Now, there is no limit on the length of time of a penalty, if the parent applies for Medicaid within 60 months of making a gift. The length of time of the penalty is determined by dividing the value of the gift by the average cost of a nursing home in the state where the parent resides (this number is set by the state).

Thus, if there is a need for the child to care for the parent, indeed it could be a good way to decrease the parent's countable assets down to the level that Medicaid requires.
x
If I may, I would suggest you take a look at my book, which is filled with information about this topic! It is available here: MedicaidSecrets.com. Best of luck with everything!

My brother was the oldest child of 9 children. He had money, my husband died a few years prior to this. The state came by after a complaint was made by another sibling, about her meds. I walked in to check on my Mother when the state was there. They flat said they were going to take custody of my mother if someone did not stay with her 24 hours. My mother was setting at the table crying. I had already signed up to go to college. I was a real estate broker, wanted to get a more stable job. The case manager looked at my sister and me. I was the oldest daughter. Sister did not want the responsibility, nor than anyone else at that time. I agree and sign a statement that I would move in with her, and made sure she had 3 meals a day and her meds which was only 2 pills. In Oklahoma they told me it only took an interview from them to make a decision as such. So this is were it began. I had no money to fight this cruel brother. I ask for help, he refused. The only check I received, was a widows pension of $500 a month. It just gets worse. This brother would go 2 years before he would visit Mom. He landed up nearly a year later putting her in a nursing home. Place a code on her where she could not leave the nursing home. Mom landing getting assulted at the home. Filed a report on that. His reason for her not to leave for a visit, he was afraid she would fall. Mom was physcallly very strong. She had altzeimers, memory was not good. I use to be a nurse also. So before he stuck her in the nursing home, he talked her into a retirement center. I told him she needed more care than a retirement. So the retirement center said she had to leave, needed more care. And again he put a code on me blocking me from seeing my own mother, said he was afraid I would kipnapped her. I landing up having a stroke fighting this brother trying to get my Mothers rights back. All I could get when I complain was it is a civil issue, I needed an attorney. Mom died about 3 years after that sad and depress. He moved her into another city away from most of the family when she only had a couple of months to live. Mom suffered so much, I took pictures of Mom the last time I went to visit her. She was so dyhydrated her mouth had swollen with blisters. You could tell she was suffering. And again I made a complaint to the nursing home. They put her in the hospital. Moms brothers and sisters that lived in Michigan did have money, they begged this brother to let Mom go to them her last days. And as a result Moms youngest sister had a massive stroke. So I will end this. It is not a sin to have money, but without it you not only catch yourself at a disadvantage, I would have being able to have took this mean, hateful brother to court, and took Mom home. The only good thing out of this is I got to spend some time with her before he took her away. There is so much on this. When Mom died he paid hisself an trustee amount. Mom was not rich, she owned her home, where her money went who knows? He was suppose to auction off her stuff while she was in a reiirement home, but instead he took what he wanted alone with a few others, there was no auction. I told the attorney, he did not seem interested either. Remember brother was paying him. I have a brother that is on disablity for mental problems, he did not tell the attorney. I did, this brother recieved nothing, he should had being represented by an attorney hisself during probate, and again the attorney dismiss that. Amen

I printed the long treatise from ShirleyAnn60, and shared it with a lawyer/friend of mine who summed it up very much the way I did. The person who wrote this is certainly in need of help and legal assistance. As to why she did not seek help from Legal Services or Social Services in her state, no one knows. My heart goes out to her, and unfortunately no one helped her prior to her mother's death. Of course we are only reading one side of the story, and we all know that there are at least two sides to every story. That's why we have courts. Right now she needs counseling for the unresolved issues involving her brother(s). She also needs a good Probate lawyer.

It seems odd that she claimed to be real estate broker, not a real estate agent, and yet wanted to go back to school to enter a different field that paid more money. Her writing, even taking into consideration typographical errors, English as a second language, or Southern English, does not support the statement that she was a broker. It is a field that requires a great deal of writing, examination of documents and education. It usually is a lucrative field, but in some states it may not be.
As Gabriel Heiser said, a parent can pay an adult child for care, as long as the payments are in keeping with what a private caregiver would charge. These payments are taxable of course.
This sad commentery from ShirleyAnn60 should give us all time to pause and think as to what we should or should not do to prepare for our own demise.

Ok. I am a License Real Estate Broker in a small rural area. I am not a grammer teacher. And by the way, I did ,contact legal aid. they do NOT get involved with civil issues. And Real Estate is NOT the best field for stable income. When my husband was alive, that was a different story, I had a back up support. Real Estate started toward a downhill slide, during this time, it got harder and harder to close a transaction, requirements got stiffer, appraisers got stricker because of all the repos's. There was a time when I made very well in Real Estate. I am glad I had printed out contract forms, just for people like you that would pick my spelling and grammer apart. The other side of the story. I will give you some of the brothers and sisters name including her family if you doubt me. You apparantly never did any extensive caregiving, you would not be so hard on some of these comments. I helped my husband, my brother and a grandmother. So have a little compassion for those that are doing their best. Thank God there is still a few compassionate love ones that do care, even without the help or support of their family. Those members that come around once or twice a year, and make statements that they have a life, needs to be reminded that their Mother and Father had a life to. May God Bless all those caregivers out there, someone does care! The person you are taking care of, and God knows, sometimes we think he may have forgotten us, but he is there And again I will say it takes a very SPECIAL PERSON to be a good caregiver. Needless to say I know that not all caregivers are good. But not all Doctors or attorneys are either. Ann

Hi Sarah~I think it is a good idea to contact your local agency on aging or AARP on this matter....or possibly medicaid.gov online. I do not think there is a 30 month window, but applying for help asap may be in your best interest.

Good luck!

Hap

Wow, I guess all of us need to make sure our writing skills are up to snuff before we post anything. ShirleyAnn, you don't owe anyone here the names of your family members.

Hi Sarah,
Boy this comment has ruffled a few feather!!!!! When in the moment of care and passion- who gives a "rat ass" about spelling and grammer???? It's moot( probably spelled it wrong and should be mote-mute- who cares!). What I do care about is you. Gabriel Hesser had sound advice. Follow up on what he advised. Each state is different and when it comes to this web site we need to keep in mind that legal issues will vary from state to state when it comes to Medicaid care. Speak with a local attorney and the Alliance on Aging. God luck and G-d bless.Spell check is so overrated!

Thank You. I agree with you Nataly1. Every state varies. An attorney would be helpful. And spelling and grammar is overrated. Hugs and Prayers to all those involved in caregiving. Ann

n1k2r3 aka Norene -

I do not understand your motivation behind your rude unhelpful comments.

You write psychologically as an immature mid-western male.
Are you rude simply because you are "a boy named Sue"?

It is imperative to contact an elderlaw attorney to determine what you can and cannot do so he can qualify in the shortest period of time. Talking w/your accountant is also necessary. Please try to let the ugly comments above slide off your back. Unless someone has been in your shoes, s/he has no idea of the work and expense involved in caring for your dad and your own personal financial situation. All the best......

Caroline1234: For the record, I am not a mid-western male.
With all due respect to the late Johnny Cash, I believe that "the boy named Sue" represented a resentful young man who was ready to fight when called upon to defend himself. That is not I. I have no need to defend my words. They are correct.

Hey everyone! If the person you are caring for is living with you, it is perfectly legal to charge them room and board. Of course you do have to report it at tax time to cover your butt. N1K2R3, apparently your education was lacking when it comes to being caring to people in the same boat as you!!Oh, and being gorgeous is the last thing on a caregiver's mind!!!

Sometimes education and wealth could use a side order of tact and good manners.

Carol is very wise and I would follow her advice-from me working on a medicade application I can tell you you have to be very carefull there is a look back period of at least 5 yrs. where you have to account for where their money went and if they say so you will have to pay it back an elder lawyer will be able to advise you about grardianship and disinheirtance and all so things are done legally so it will not come back to bite you later and I do think you are entilted to receive money in exchange for the very hard and usually not appreciated care and expenses incurred in caring for an elder just be careful how it is done,

I think we should all realize that our legal and tax system for the most part do not care if a person is your "parent." For example, notice that as N1K2R3 mentioned, there is a credit for "Care of the Elderly," not a "Care of you Parent" credit.

Interestingly, this is different from how our society, legal and tax system treat children, where we are given tax breaks, along with responsibilities and clear status.

So think of it this way, if an old man hired you to cook, clean, manage his finances, drive him around, live in your place, how much would it cost him in your neighborhood? Set up all the paperwork to be within this "norm" and when he runs down his assets, apply to Medicaid, paperwork in hand.

For sure many of us understand that a poor experience with the legal system is more the norm than the exception, especially in the case of elder issues.

In a civil suit, I also phoned around to all the "helpful agencies" and many lawyers. Nope - nobody interested in a civil suit. If somebody "hit" my dad, they would be all there. If someone was just starving him to death slowly, well -- get back to us when he's really out of it.

And for all those "helpful" persons out there suggesting to contact lawyers. Let's have a reality check handy. I'd have loved to, but $5,000, $15,000, 25,000 retainers and $200-500/per hour to talk and email them is unfortunately a bit out of budget. The answer from the legal establishment is, too bad. Go into debt to pay us.

The lawyer I did initially find, a registered elder attorney and referred by the head of an agency -- declined to be involved after the documents HE drew up came into question. And thus, I was "introduced" to our fine legal system.

By the way, there was nothing wrong with the documents he drew up, they were fine and appropriate. He just didn't want to be involved in defending accusations against it, said his specialty wasn't "litigation."

Please let's not pick on other's writing here, we're not writing a book here. Comprende. Wakatemaska? Pardon 'oui.

I really can't believe someone harped about someone else's writing, although there was an attempt to link this criticism to real-estate broker skills. Do we for the first time have a troll here? (That's an internet term for someone who posts comments just to upset others and for no other real purpose.)

Now back to the topic at hand, yes I think the 30-months and "lookback" period may or may not come up, but who cares! IF you document everything and use appropriate fees and charges.

I'm in a similar situation myself, so this is a good forum to gather advice from others. I would and do gladly provide for my father, but we seem to live in a "paper" world, with some very ...not nice... people.

Wouldn't it be nice if SOMEWHERE in all those tax publications there was a guideline for how to account for our elder care expenses, tables of appropriate fees and costs estimations, explanations of how to take credits and in effect properly engage with the tax system and medicaid system for elderly care. Is there?

Here's a book that may be helpful: "How to Care For Your Parents' Money While Caring for Your Parents" The description says: Filled with checklists, worksheets, resource lists, and other essential tools, this comprehensive guide supplies the knowledge and confidence you need to: decide who should manage your parents' money; communicate with siblings and caregivers; establish budgets and write annual reports; manage your parents' stocks, bonds, real estate, and other investments; deal with health insurance, Medicaid, and other insurance issues; and protect your parents from elder fraud.

No, I didn't write this one, but it looks pretty good!

As far as the attorney who couldn't take a case where his own documents were at issue, standard attorney ethics rules guidelines would dictate that result. Otherwise, he'd be defending his own documents and could not be his own witness. Accordingly, he is required to turn down the case and refer it out. There is nothing in the least bit shady about this.

robert888: I am not a troll.
N1K2R3

Okay N1. Next time try for some helpful comments, not criticism!

Am I the only one on here who thinks its funny that someone has to EXPLAIN that they are WELL-EDUCATED,not too educated about legal services or caregiving though.

Tennessee, you are not alone...I have been amused at the response of the caregivers to N1's comments. What is that sound a cat makes as they swipe at you..rouarrr..rouarrr..hiss hiss? N1 got it...right in the old schnozzolla! Right on guys!!! Caregivers Rock!! Yep!

I met with a very kind elder Lawyer who I paid a retainer for 5 hrs of his time and had our intial meeting and some phone called and then my husband died and he was going to return the money but I knew I would need his help with paperwork from his death so told him to keep the money for now-he was reasonable and a kind person ahd he did help me get my husbands pension the union was not going to give it to me and after my lawyer wrote them a firm letter I started getting his pension

Dear N1K2R3- I quit my good paying job to take care of my Dad-and unless you get POA you can not take a tax deduction and it is not near enough to help out. I would take care of mine for free if I could but I had bills then and still do. My dad is a Disabled WWII vet but not 100% disabled and I did apply for and get an aid and dependance increase in his pension which helps but is not enough to cover my bills. So being a Techincal Designer/Pattern Maker I also make patterns and sew wedding dresses from home for a designer in Birmingham- it helps keep things going. As it was; Dad did not draw much money anyway- I do keep the aid and dependence they gave him but leave him extra money so he will know he has some to spend if he wants. I also pay for alot of him supplies from my money. He is bed ridden and can not get around. My mother-in-law (who is verbally and mentally abusive will soon be in the same boat and will most likey be moved in with us too. She thinks she can pay someone $75.00 a week to come take care of her. She has berated me for keeping my Dad instead of putting him in a nursing home. But she cries when she thinks no one will take care of her. She has two sons whom she has mistreated all their lives and do not want to take care of her. So it will be left to me- she drove the other daughter-in-law off a few years ago. I on the other hand have put up with her for over 40 years and have never had a fight with her- I just go with the flow and ignore a lot of it. I realize she is just a miserable person and is only happy or amused at someone elses problems or disasters. SO all you who can find some help in caring for your parrents or spouses go for it.