I need advice. What my are rights? Should I contact an attorney?
Hi everyone,
You may remember me from some previous questions/posts. I need advice on what to do. I am in a very difficult situation with my Mother. She has always been a very narcissistic and manipulative woman. We have never had a relationship, but I was her only living child left to provide her care and it's difficult. Below is a link to one of my last posts.
Anyway, last Wednesday 3/30/2022 night I had to call 911 yet again for my Mother who was residing with me and I was her sole caregiver. She was ill and transported to the nearby hospital, where they found that she was having a severe COPD flare up and also a UTI. She was admitted to the hospital and stayed there until Sunday night 4/3/2022. I had told the case worker that I wanted her to go to a skilled nursing facility because she could not return back home. They made the arrangements and Sunday night 4/3/2022 she was transported to the SNF. Well I received a call from The Office of Senior Services yesterday afternoon stating that there is an investigation concerning elder financial abuse. I have not used any of my Mom's finances other than things that were needed to care for her, such as personal hygiene products, adult briefs and medications and that was with my Mom's permission. I have had her help with groceries and other necessities as she was part of our family household. There have also been accusations of other abuse. I need to know what my rights are and if I should contact an attorney, and what type of an attorney should I consult with about this situation. My husband wants to persue a lawsuit against her for my emotional pain and suffering stemming from my childhood to date. Because of this woman who birthed me, I suffer from severe major depression, PTSD and anxiety. She was never a Mother and she has made my life a living HELL. I followed what her neurologist and told me. He told me that eventually she was going to need to go to the hospital and once admitted I could refuse to bring her back into my home.
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As long as you have records accounting for moms money and spending you should be ok. It is just the headache of having to deal with this that sucks. But it is moms last hurrah to try and stick it to you.
You could try and sue mom but there are statue of limitations and the like. Truthfully the only non statue of limitations for abuse is sexual abuse. The rest have time limits on when you can legally go after a person for other types of abuse.
You could go the civil route and see if a lawyer would take your case. But if mom doesn't have a lot of money most wouldnt even bother taking on a case like that. Suing in small claims if you won may net you 5000 depending on the maximum in your state.
I think the biggest thing is to consider mom dead to you now. No more interacting with her at all. She made her bed. Now is the time to let her lie in it.
Start collecting all your and your mom's financial records and be prepared to show that you've spent her money on her housing, food and care. Do not be defensive.
Your mother sounds vengeful and spiteful. Do not ever be alone with her or allow her back into your home.
And as Barb said "Your mother sounds vengeful and spiteful. Do not ever be alone with her or allow her back into your home" . When I was investigated, based on complaints from two twisted sissies" the investigator closed the case and told me that the sissies complaints were nothing but spite and vengefullness! Good job, Barb!
Follow attorney's instructions.
https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/personal-injury/can-you-sue-your-parents-for-child-abuse/
Therapy is the right place for that. Keep it out of your dealings with lawyers and APS.
One issue is that your home is her legal residence, especially if any of her mail is going there with her name and your address on it. If she doesn't have a medical diagnosis of dementia and even if you are her PoA, she can legally check herself out of the SNF if she can get herself back to your home you legally will be required to let her back in. If this happens, I would start the eviction process for your state/county. This usually entails going to the courthouse to fill out the eviction form, paying the fee and filing it. Then you post the eviction notice where you are required to (physically at the house, the form will probably instruct on this) for 30 days (usually). After that time she can be escorted off the property by police if she refuses to go. Where she goes will be her problem. This all sounds very harsh but seems to me she is a harsh woman and now the chickens are coming home to roost. You should cut all ties with her, including financial. She is obviously hoping to continue to manipulate you with the hope of inheritance. The sooner you jetison this hope, the better and more free you will feel.
I've not been in your shoes exactly but did have family threaten to disinherit me when I left their religion. I told them I didn't care and to go ahead. It completely emptied their power over me. But today we have a great relationship and I'm more respected because I'm not a doormat.
I wish you much courage, wisdom, strong and clear boundaries and peace in your heart as you step aside and let her "enjoy" the retirement she created.
That said, I would heed Barb's advice. When APS comes knocking at your door, keep it professional, not emotional. Do you have mom's Lewy Body diagnosis in writing? If so, I would have that handy when they come. Be cooperative. It's ok to be upset and/or mad about an allegation being made against you - that's normal. However, DO NOT get *overly* emotional or go into a diatribe with them about your history with mom. First off, they don't care. They have seen enough heartbreaking family situations. When you investigate things of this nature, you form a "shell" around your emotions. You have to, in order to be able to do your job and keep your sanity. Weeping and wailing about how evil your mom is (which she absolutely is) is not going to sway them one way or another.
Secondly. the more you tell them how evil mom is/was to you, the more they might think "hey, maybe there's something to this allegation; maybe there's some abuse here done out of spite". You KNOW you haven't been stealing mom's money, and you have the proof you need right in the bank statements. At least with an accusation of financial abuse it's easier to prove it didn't happen than, say, an allegation of abuse such as withholding food or medication. It's not APS' first rodeo with an unfounded complaint made by a spiteful, dementia-addled elder; I would not be surprised if by the time they come to talk to you they have already 99% decided the complaint in unfounded. It's your job to ensure you don't "talk them" into changing their minds about it.
By all means, for your own peace of mind, hire a lawyer to help defend you against these allegations. But suing mom? That will only drag out the relationship, and only you can decide if it's worth that. If not, after the investigation is over, cut all ties with her. Ask the lawyer if you will need to formally evict her (as Geaton suggested) in order to protect yourself from her signing herself out and coming back to your house. And find someone to talk to about this, so you can start healing and live the life you deserve to live without the specter of this evil woman overshadowing your every day.
As others have said, be transparent with the finances. It's completely okay that she paid for things, APS isn't going to view that as a problem.
Keep your feelings out of it, make it about mom's medical condition and that she is angry because you can no longer have her in your home. Act like this accusation is par for the course of dealing with her, which it is. You know that you are NOT an abuser, she is and she's projecting herself onto you.
I do encourage you to walk away. She can become a ward of the state and they will make sure she has a roof and care. She doesn't deserve one more kindness from you, ever.
She is missing something vital in her soul to blame a 7 year old for the traumatic abuse. Let her have the life she created.
Time to consider yourself an orphan and heal so you can be the best you.
She did this and now she gets to deal with the consequences all by herself.
Great big warm hug! You got this, it's going to be okay.
Hopefully, you have kept records of what you spent out of her money. From what you have said, though, its not enough to amount to financial abuse. My Moms bank statement was proof enough. The money went in and out. If I spent out of pocket I wrote a check at the end of the month and put the receipts in an envelope with the ck# on it.
Normally with APS we say wait for the first meeting before hiring a lawyer. It may be the accused is found not at fault but in your instance a lawyer consultation at least may be needed. You need to know if you have a right to keep Mom from coming back to your house for one thing. I would also find out, if she remains in the SNF, how can the State take over her care. This way, you no longer have to deal with her.
" I saw that my Mom was calling me from her cell phone, so of course I answered her call because I was waiting to hear from her to see how her transition from the hospital to SNF went.,"
" I also had planned to go visit my Mom and bring her some of her belongings later that evening"
I am not trying to be cruel here you really felt Mom would be happy being placed in a SNF? And you planned on visiting her? This is where you cut ties. For your sanity, you have to back off. No visiting or answering Moms calls. Give yourself the break you need. With all your Moms health problems I doubt if she will be released. You make it very clear you WILL not care for this woman. Turn her care over to the State. They will spend down any money she has for her care and when its gone Medicaid will take over.
When accusations are made APS has to investigate. Seems you have her Neurologist to back you up that Mom needs care other than in your home. Please, when the dust settles, see a therapist. You owe this woman nothing. Really, you need to go no contact. Your husband has to let it go too. Be glad she is somewhere where she can get the care she needs. If you feel you must take a call, hang up if its nasty but I wouldn't take it. You need to set boundries for yourself. You have to stop allowing this woman to abuse you.
P. S. Ignore TChamp. Most of his/her comments are off the Wall.
I agree with ITRR. You should be welcoming and transparent with APS. I would tell them that now with this accusation you cannot take your Mom back into your home. You should contact Social Services at the SNF to say that your troubled Mother has opened an APS case against you and she cannot, therefore, come back into your home with her abuse of you, that you have suffered it all your life and cannot now go on despite the fact that she is your Mother. Tell them she will not be returning to your home wherever else she may go.
If you are POA get a Lawyer letter to resign that. It will need to go to your Mom and any entities out there on which you have signed on as POA.
Otherwise you do not need a lawyer.
If your Mom is diagnosed with a UTI you need to research UTI and mentation; being bonkers is not at all unusual in seniors with a UTI and APS will be aware of that.
If you were smart enough to keep receipts for anything your Mom paid for, then have them ready. In future know that any purchases you make for Mom/with Mom's agreement are to be filed with receipts. As RR says, if Mom moved into your home you were within rights to have her help to buy her personal supplies, to buy food, and etc.
So your Mission now is to forget about a Lawyer. Sounds like your Mom is way too far gone to be sued for anything she says and IF she complained to hospital or SNF they are beholden by law to report what she said EVEN IF THEY DON'T believe her.
Next on your list is to let go of your anger. Be welcoming to APS when they set up appointment. Present a calm reasoning household. Tell them your truth. Tell them that due to this accusation you will not be welcoming your Mom back into your home nor helping her further with any purchases. Let them know (if you are POA) that you will be seeing an attorney to resign and they may need to enlist the state for guardianship of Mom when that's needed. Remain pleasant and calm and make eye contact. Keep your body language open. No anger. No crossed arms. No talk of lawyers to sue her.
Let them know that you have been all your life an abused child, that you have been raised and trained to feel obligated and that's why you assumed care for your distressed Mom, but that you are going to THERAPY now to get help so that you understand that you are trapped in a cycle with an abuser who can continue abuse of you no matter how ill she is.
And then DO THAT. You quite honestly need to get therapy so you can step out of the circular swirl of abuser-abused.
I understand here that we are getting only one side of this. That Mom will have her own story. APS will believe the one least angry, most calm, most heartbroken, most teary.
Don't accept this woman back into your own home. If you and your husband are in HER home prepare to leave now. Let the state take over on Mom. They won't be listening to a whole lot of this.
Spend your money on therapy to regain your life, and just walk away from Mom if possible.
The SW at the hospital may try to guilt you into taking her back.
You say:
"I can't possibly do that".
I can no longer endanger my physical and mental health ".
"There will be no one at home to care for her"
"The literature says that no one who has been abused by a parent should care for that parent. Would you like to hear about the sequel abuse I endured in my childhood, and which my so called mother refused to address?"
Practise this stuff in the mirror. Be cold as ice and hard as nails. Don't let them fool you with the "we'll find you help".
They won't.
I would bet she is lying to scare you into taking her home, maybe. That is not how APS works. They do the investigation and there is not a fee. mom would not Have to hire them. Have you been contacted, legitimately, by APS? Did they provide you a business card?
"But to hear an evil voice on the other end saying "I know what you've done". And I have investigators investigating you and you are going to jail, you've been taking my money out of my accounts all over the place."
Years ago, I was investigated for child abuse.
My first husband had an explosive temper and abused me, both mentally and physically. But he told me it was my fault, and some part of me believed that.
Something set him off one day and he started hitting my 16 year old daughter. I tried to stop him but he physically shoved me to the floor. My 24 year old son called 911. They told him to cut it out.
My daughter went to her H.S. guidance counselor the next day and reported what had happened. The GC called me to tell me that he HAD to call CPS (which I knew, because I was also a mandated reporter).
The nice CPS ladies showed up 2 days later. They talked to my ex, my daughter and me separately.
One of them said one of the most useful things to me. "Honey, if you don't make him leave, you're going to lose your licence."
Oy, I'd never thought of that.
After they left, I told my (then) husband to leave. I had never been brave enough to do that. He always told me that if we divorced, he'd get the kids because I was crazy.
And I believed him.
I told him he had to leave because I could lose my licence. He said "you love your licence more than me."
I finally saw how crazy HE was.
I told him yes, that was true.
So, having APS/CPS can be instructive, useful, cathartic and pretty simple.
Take heart. Good luck and keep us in the loop! (((((Hugs)))).
Congrats on getting out of the fog. Make sure you stay out of it.
Be prepared for birthday cards, cards to your children, all saying she’s sorry and one phone call would mean so much. It’s what they do to worm themselves back into your life. Or announcements that she’s giving her estate to a charity or some caregiver in the snf. Whatever.
Consider your break like a bad divorce. There’s no way you have to remain friends.
If you are worried that your calm demeanor and receipts won't be enough to satisfy APS, by all means, consult an certified Eldercare attorney.
I think you would very much benefit from having someone to rely on during this process and advise you how best to proceed.
This is where you find one:
https://nelf.org
I seem to recall that you called a lawyer back in February; is that person certified and available to help you?
Please don't forget that you have mom's doctor and Physical Therapist who have worked with her and know that she was uncooperative in getting up and moving around to maintain her mobility and health.
You aren't alone!
Call your doctor and get some temporary relief for your (totally understandable) insomnia.
Hang in there. (((((hugs)))))))
I mean that you are going to be calm when they come out to see you.
A mandated reporter is someone who, by law, must call in a complaint to the state hotline if they are informed of abuse.
They are NOT allowed to use any discretion. They are not allowed to say to themselves "this is a crazy person, I can't believe ANYTHING she tells me".
They have to call it in (at least that was the rules we played by when I was a mandated reported). So please don't think that anyone actually believes what your mother is telling them. They HAVE to call.
Be sure and explain that you cut off activities because she was diagnosed with dementia and her executive function was obviously compromised, proven by the excessive amount of gambling losses. Everything you did was for her safety.
I wouldn't offer them that you had to raise your voice frequently. Sometimes we need to not tell everything in the day to day dealings of a demented mind. You can't understand unless you were there, so it can be misunderstood.
When my dad would accuse me of things and others felt the need to tell me, I would sigh and say "I know." It told people that I wasn't surprised by his false accusations and I had nothing to defend against. You are in those shoes, you have nothing to defend against.
It is okay to be shook up about this whole situation. Just try not to defend yourself by offering to much information, it looks like you are trying to justify something.
They will probably come to your home but, you can require that it be a scheduled appointment and have your husband present to help keep you on point. He should park his anger at your mthr and just hold your hand. Arraign a word in advance that can be said to help you stay calm and get back to the questions.
Most importantly, listen to the questions very carefully and only answer the actual question. If you don't fully understand, say so, make them clarify what it is they are asking.
I want to send you a great big warm hug full of strength, courage and wisdom to help you be strong as you go through this. I have no doubt that you are still reeling from the shock of yet another viscous attack from this thing you call mom. Remember to breathe and remember that you didn't do what she is accusing you of.
You can do it!
As it goes for emotional responsibility, free yourself. That doesn’t mean you don’t love her, but draw boundaries and don’t let her cross them. Even if it means her no longer living with you! I grew up with Mommy Dearest. The abuse my sister and I endured was stuff movies are made of.
My mother will be 90 in November. And regardless of anything she may go through, she cannot, WILL NOT live with me. I still show her love but will not get sucked into her narcissistic behavior. She tries to use Bible scriptures to make me feel bad. But I don’t bite. God is love and I show her His kindness by being kind. But kindness does not mean you have to accept her abusive behavior. Cut it off, but love at the same time.
You are important to this world!
I am actually at the breaking point and have decided to place her in a long term care facility after her recent accusations of all abuse. I just want to get past this and go on with my life in peace, but even though she is no longer living with me, she is still causing havoc in my life.
An attorney who specializes in criminal defense would be the best specialist in this type of case.