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I never see the behavior my brother talks about. I feel he is aging & forgets a few things but overall does fine. My brother says he doesn’t bathe, wears miss matched shoes & other things that I never see. Dad gets upset with my brother about their business dealings and I am not involved with that part so it’s hard for me to tell
You just described the beginnings of dementia (and actually once the symptoms become too obvious to ignore, he's probably had them slowly coming on for a few years already. He needs to get tested. He needs his legal ducks in a row before it's too late. He will need an advocate.
As someone who's been in business with partners, and has family members in business with other family members -- it's hard enough when they don't have problems like "forgetfulness". You may not be seeing the fullness of his symptoms because you aren't with him all day long.
But what is it that you think he's exaggerating? How old is he? How often do you see him?
Time for dad to have a complete evaluation by a neurologist that includes testing for dementia. This will provide the answers needed to confirm or eliminate the concern. If this has already been done and the diagnosis is confirmed, it’s time for an exit plan from the business, keeping dad involved as long as possible, but in an increasingly limited role. If brother is “up to something” perhaps the business attorney should be consulted as well
If the OP is not part of the business, she has no power on her own unless she's the PoA for her Dad. Without this she cannot consult the business attorney of a business she's not part of. She'd have to help her Dad to help himself. He goes through the existing business attorney. The business attorney cannot divulge private business info to an outsider.
Why dont you stay with Dad for a weekend or a week and witness what Your dad is doing ? You have to spend at least a week or More to see the patterns . Then you go to the doctor with him and do a pre cog test and have a referral for a neurologist . The Progression is slow and can occur over years . I Know a few years before My mother Passed she would say " I swear he has Alzheimers . " They were divorced but continued to speak over the phone . I had No clue But I Know when I mentioned someone On Christmas Eve 2015 - he said " whose that ? " and Then I explained to him and it still did not register . I Knew immediately there was a problem and things grew worse . At some point he said to me " I Know there is something wrong with Me and that there is no cure . " So you see Unless you experience the behaviors you won't Know and it can be frustrating trying to run a Business with a Father with Dementia .
Is dad living alone? Who is POA? Do you have any stake in the business?
Why not go visit dad and stay with him for a while. A week. If you live near by you can make an excuse that you are having work done at your place. Now you can see what dad is like when you're there long term. While you are there OBSERVE. Do not prompt, help or prop him up. If dad lives alone this might also give an indication that that might have to change.
If you are not POA and brother is you have very little to say about what happens next if dad does have cognitive issues. And POA might not matter with a business depending how the agreement is and how large the business is it might be a different matter to remove a partner even if your brother does not have POA. (I am not a business owner but If I were I would have something in writing that if my partner started showing signs of not being able to manage the business that they could be removed in some way like a buy out or other means to protect the business.)
If you have no stake in the business stay out of the business aspect of this. If you are POA though and this part of his assets you need to do what you can to protect your dad's assets and that might mean he has to step down or sell. You should probably consult an attorney if you are POA
Welcome to Forum, Brenda. If you fill in your profiles with the details we will have a bit more information. On the face of what little you tell us I can only say this:
There is no getting around a diagnosis of dementia. And it would be awful to have someone with undiagnosed dementia running a business partnership. If dementia is present, your Dad shouldn't be responsible for this.
You do not mention the way in which this "exaggeration" is being done. If you are ALSO a partner in this business, or are your father's POA, you have a right to information. Otherwise you really don't have any rights in this. I am assuming your father and your brother are partners. If your brother is not discussing all of this with you I am assuming he must have his reasons. Has your father come to you with information he is being forced out of the business by your brother?
More information from you would be very helpful. Again, welcome, and I hope you will fill us in a bit more.
I've made Rude Aunt semi-famous on this site because of the way she treated me and others as my dad died - she was showing signs of dementia at age 88. Dad, age 91, had a business, and she was the bookkeeper. They each covered up for the other as they aged and lost abilities. That worked well with the collaboration of the office secretary, who first and foremost wanted to ride her job to the end while charging various personal items to the business.
Fast forward to when dad died and I had access to his office. Rude Aunt, being paranoid, had denied that to me when dad became sick (she was a corporate officer). After his death I was the one designated to run the business, which had to take care of mom. By then, I found that Rude Aunt was clearly inept at running a business, and so was dad. He should have retired at least ten years before. Files lost or tossed in a cardboard box, unanswered correspondence, money disappeared, dad's previous instructions not followed by RA so that there were lawsuits filed, etc. I saw malfeasance, misfeasance, lies, and had a terrible set of circumstances to untangle.
Dad confided to mom and me when he was dying that he knew Rude Aunt was "getting senile" but felt comfortable with keeping her on despite strong trepidations from my mother. Dad just didn't know how bad Rude Aunt was (and never did, because things came to light after his death that he couldn't have known).
This could happen in any business. If I, as POA, had been able to see what was going on at dad's office before he died, I'd have smelled a hundred rats and put a stop to some of the craziness somehow. I'd have replaced the secretary, retired Rude Aunt, and farmed out the bookkeeping. The business wouldn't have ended up in the toilet, so to speak, as it did.
Brenda, if your dad has dementia and still has a say in the business with your brother, SOMEONE needs to be monitoring it and not allowing dad to muck things up. Why don't you have a talk with your brother about this? That could be a good first step. Then, depending on whether you have any say-so, you can proceed with whatever your role happens to be.
I recently had a huge argument with my brother, told him my mother is having signs of dementia. He wouldn't even contemplate the idea. I spend more time with mom than he does but he is POA, anyways, others in the family are seeing it now and he is starting to come around.
Not sure if this will be your case or not, but keep an open mind, for your dad
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
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You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
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APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
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Are there more details you'd like to add?
But what is it that you think he's exaggerating? How old is he? How often do you see him?
https://www.agingcare.com/topics/8/dementia-behaviors
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/how-to-help-with-bathing-and-personal-hygiene-top-tips-from-caregivers-212010.htm
Who is POA?
Do you have any stake in the business?
Why not go visit dad and stay with him for a while. A week.
If you live near by you can make an excuse that you are having work done at your place.
Now you can see what dad is like when you're there long term.
While you are there OBSERVE. Do not prompt, help or prop him up.
If dad lives alone this might also give an indication that that might have to change.
If you are not POA and brother is you have very little to say about what happens next if dad does have cognitive issues.
And POA might not matter with a business depending how the agreement is and how large the business is it might be a different matter to remove a partner even if your brother does not have POA.
(I am not a business owner but If I were I would have something in writing that if my partner started showing signs of not being able to manage the business that they could be removed in some way like a buy out or other means to protect the business.)
If you have no stake in the business stay out of the business aspect of this.
If you are POA though and this part of his assets you need to do what you can to protect your dad's assets and that might mean he has to step down or sell. You should probably consult an attorney if you are POA
There is no getting around a diagnosis of dementia. And it would be awful to have someone with undiagnosed dementia running a business partnership. If dementia is present, your Dad shouldn't be responsible for this.
You do not mention the way in which this "exaggeration" is being done.
If you are ALSO a partner in this business, or are your father's POA, you have a right to information. Otherwise you really don't have any rights in this. I am assuming your father and your brother are partners. If your brother is not discussing all of this with you I am assuming he must have his reasons.
Has your father come to you with information he is being forced out of the business by your brother?
More information from you would be very helpful.
Again, welcome, and I hope you will fill us in a bit more.
Fast forward to when dad died and I had access to his office. Rude Aunt, being paranoid, had denied that to me when dad became sick (she was a corporate officer). After his death I was the one designated to run the business, which had to take care of mom. By then, I found that Rude Aunt was clearly inept at running a business, and so was dad. He should have retired at least ten years before. Files lost or tossed in a cardboard box, unanswered correspondence, money disappeared, dad's previous instructions not followed by RA so that there were lawsuits filed, etc. I saw malfeasance, misfeasance, lies, and had a terrible set of circumstances to untangle.
Dad confided to mom and me when he was dying that he knew Rude Aunt was "getting senile" but felt comfortable with keeping her on despite strong trepidations from my mother. Dad just didn't know how bad Rude Aunt was (and never did, because things came to light after his death that he couldn't have known).
This could happen in any business. If I, as POA, had been able to see what was going on at dad's office before he died, I'd have smelled a hundred rats and put a stop to some of the craziness somehow. I'd have replaced the secretary, retired Rude Aunt, and farmed out the bookkeeping. The business wouldn't have ended up in the toilet, so to speak, as it did.
Brenda, if your dad has dementia and still has a say in the business with your brother, SOMEONE needs to be monitoring it and not allowing dad to muck things up. Why don't you have a talk with your brother about this? That could be a good first step. Then, depending on whether you have any say-so, you can proceed with whatever your role happens to be.
Not sure if this will be your case or not, but keep an open mind, for your dad