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I am an only child and helped take care of my Mom until her passing at 87 from Parkinson's last year. My Dad (79) was her primary care taker and has suffered 2 small strokes since her passing. He's recovered physically from the strokes and is still independently living in his apartment, but suffers from spinal stenosis, has some memory loss issues (ie: forgetting to take meds) and I know he (as am I) is still grieving. My husband, teen daughter and I have been helping him more and more with things like finances, laundry, ect. He has a few friends locally that he talks to from time to time, but no one on a regular basis and I am his only family nearby. He has strong community ties and before COVID was still asked to participate in community events (ie: as chaplain for the village fire dept and was the village historian). Our plan has always been to move south (SC/FL) once my daughter graduates high school & DH and I retire. We want Dad to live with us but he is insisting on staying put in NY. I'm between a rock and a hard place...my family and I are getting ready to move in the next year (or two) but I do not want to leave Dad behind. I understand how hard it will be to leave the area he is familiar with, but I'm afraid that he will continue to decline and won't be able to care for himself (especially since lately we've been doing more and more for him.) I don't fully trust that he'll be properly taken care of if he doesn't come with us and I feel like the stress will consume me. How can I convince him that being with family is more important than the town he grew up in?

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I'm an only child, too, so I get your dilemma. For starters, it would be very, very important for him to assign you as his durable PoA. Without this legal authority you will not be able to act as his medical/financial advocate no matter how you are related to him. He must understand this. This needs to happen before he loses any more cognitive faculties, since one must be "of sound mind" in order to create this legal protection. Without this you will be forced to pursue guardianship for him -- a very costly and emotionally draining process through the court system. I would start by trying to convince him to attend a meeting with an elder law attorney/estate planner. If you have to pay for this initial consult so be it (often the first 1 hr consult is free). The lawyer can give him a dose of reality which would be hard to argue against. Hopefully he'll be willing to create the PoA right then and there.

Once you and he have the PoA in place, he should have a medical exam where his doctor discretely does a cognitive/memory exam on him. He needs a baseline measurement in his records. Do not do this before creating the PoA. Only do it after.

If he is already forgetting to take his meds, this is a problem. Short-term memory loss can also make him forget to eat (which happened to my MIL). Your dad has had a huge change in the past year and more is surely to come, and quicker than anyone can imagine. Start with getting the durable, springing PoA. Also, please reconsider having him actually live in the house with you. This is not good for your privacy, your marriage or your stress levels. Try not to romanticize his caregiving in your home. If you think he's stubborn now, just wait until he's in your home and refuses to shower or wear Depends. You can read all about it on this forum from those who have gone before you. He will do much better in a more social environment in a senior community in FL. I wish you much wisdom and peace in your heart.
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Di27813 Apr 2021
Im glad Im on the right track...I have POA and an his health care proxy. I do understand what you mean about him living with us. We are looking at ‘next-gen’ homes..houses that have an attached apartment which would give us some separation but I could still check in or have home health care come in for assistance. Assisted living is also something I want to look into where we move to...I think the social aspect would help him a lot, but would be so much more affordable having him with us.
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I think at this point, it really is up to your dad to decide where he wants to live out his years. You will just have to make it very clear to him, that you and your family won't be able to handle things for him like you have, and that he will have to hire folks to help him if needed. And unfortunately it may take another health crisis, before he will finally give in and move in with you and your family. I wish you the best.
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He will decline if you move him. I have seen it with the elderly in my Church. Yes, there are good reasons why they need to live with or near family but you are taking them away from what they know. At 79 he will not make new friends if he is not involved in a Church or a other activities. You will become his entertainment. You will not have a moment for yourself. I have seen these people pass within 2 yrs.

What I suggest is finding him, if he can afford it, a nice Assisted Living where he now lives. They will be in charge of his meds. He will have 3 meals a day, outings and entertainment. Socialization too.
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Di27813 Apr 2021
I am afraid of faster decline if he moves as I’ve heard this can happen. Finding a nice assisted living here is a challenge...the best one is a half hour from the town he wants to be in and at $8,000 a month it’s a Hefty bill. Having someone overlook meds is additional cost. He doesn’t have a steady line of visitors ... once every few months a friend may call or stop by. I speak to him 1-3 times a day by phone and we are with him every weekend and 2-5 times weekdays during the month. I fear him declining without us here. I know if he moved with me it might get to a point where assisted living is a better fit and having him close to where I live I could check in on him.
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I agree with the others. Do a POA. Then get an assessment of his needs, and let him stay in his home town that he likes. He can have a professional caregiver or go to assisted living in his town.
If he lives with you, it will be a big burden, and there goes your retirement.
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Di27813 Apr 2021
I do have POA and Dr feels memory loss is ‘regular’ aging. Right now he’s fairly independent but I feel like he’s not looking ahead and preparing for what his future may hold. Assisted living in NY is a lot more expensive than down south. If he goes to assisted living in NY, I’d be afraid of his level of care without me here to check on the services he’s getting.
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Di27813
Hire a professional caregiver to help him in NY, if he wants to stay there. Or If you are able to bring him with you, place him In AL there in FL.
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My opinion would be to make your Move. You can come home and help Dad either move to you or move into care when he needs it. I would begin discussing your plans with him now and give him time to adjust and think about it. Meanwhile start exploring ALFs in your area and in your new area when you move. Wishing you the best.
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Another option to think about is to sit with him, go through all his needs and activities, and how he will be able to organise them when you are gone. Don’t say that you think it’s unrealistic, just let him think it through. There were be some questions, so you can return to the subject when he and you have had a chance to think about it.

In the meantime, think yourself about how all these questions would be answered if he moved with you as a live-in, or alternatively to AL. When you both discuss it all again, you can raise how it could be done if he moved.

Your Dad is not so old at 79, and clearly he loves his apartment, his home town, and his community. Can you think through with him how he can do return trips occasionally? He shouldn’t have to feel that he is walking away permanently from all the things he cares about.
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Di27813 Apr 2021
He’s not old, but is starting to have more aging issues between his back and memory. We have had discussions over these last couple of months as he’s realizing his memory is starting to slip. He still thinks he’s capable of handling everything, meanwhile we are assisting him more and more. I let him deal with the last snow storm we had but he didn’t call anyone to shovel and instead canceled his Dr. appointment. Knowing it was an important apt. we wound up going to his place to clear the snow so he could get to his car. If we weren’t here I think he would’ve cancelled his Dr appointments and just waited till it melted.

I think Keeping the discussion open is important but without pressure and as you said giving us time to really think things through as time progresses. Traveling back to NY is a must...I would want to return to this area as well as I have friends here and I do still love this area.
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My folks lived in Florida, independently, until dad was 87 and had to stop driving for a few different reasons. At that time, I moved them out to Colorado to be close to me (the only child) and set them up in a senior Independent Living bldg about 5 miles away. When he fell and broke a hip, then I had them moved into Assisted Living. Dad passed in 2015 and my mother is still alive at 94 and living in Memory Care these days.

My point is, let your father live his life on his terms until it becomes no longer viable for him to do so. He'll tell you when he can't do it anymore, and then you can make arrangements to move him closer to you. That's my suggestion. You can always see if he'd like a caregiver to come in to help him out a few days a week once you move.

You need your life, and he needs his. Hopefully, you can both accomplish that.

Good luck!
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Di27813 Apr 2021
I do want him to be independent and in control of his decisions as long as possible. He’s been relying on us to do more and more. I will continue to keep an open and honest communication with him. Being 6 hrs away via plane won’t be as easy as having him with or near me.
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Let him be. I would just make sure his physician, close friend, has a way to contact you if need be. He has always been independent I assume and needs to continue to be.
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Good advice! My Dad and I had an elder law attorney help us get my Mom qualified for Medicaid before she passed...NY is one state where you can qualify under spousal refusal...and this saved their funds to help him. I don’t know how anyone could apply for Medicaid on their own..it was a lot to deal with. In NY in home help is less expensive than a good assisted living place. The AL we liked is over $8,000/mo not including an aid or medicine management. In home aides are about $25/hr. We went thru a home health aid service for my Mom...dealing with no shows was difficult in addition to finding someone you can trust. I’m glad We had a camera installed as there were a few aids that had to be replaced. I think this is why I feel strongly about caring for him as long as I can...finding trustworthy help is very hard.
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disgustedtoo Apr 2021
"In NY in home help is less expensive than a good assisted living place. The AL we liked is over $8,000/mo not including an aid or medicine management. In home aides are about $25/hr."

Many people think in home care is less expensive... that depends a lot on various factors, including the hourly charge:
*how many hours of care are hired?
*how much does the home/apartment cost?
*how much are all the other expenses (utils, food, insurance, etc)?

Yes, AL is expensive - more so in NY than some other areas. Then there are the no-show and/or quality issues. In AL, there'd always be several working, so a no-show isn't as bad, and often the less qualified aides will be let go.

My mother's MC just eeked over 8k/mo last year. If you break it down by hour (of course people/services/supplies etc don't get paid by the hour, but bear with this), 8k is just over $11/hr. Granted, the residents don't get 24/7 one-to-one care, but most don't really need that much - some more than others, but it all works out. The fee/rent has to cover taxes, possibly mtg, food, utilities, cleaning, maintenance, repairs, admin and the care staff.

Meanwhile, if you have to hire someone just 8hr/day 7 days/week, you're talking $6k PLUS the cost of the home, utils, food, ins, etc. Consider also that the "going rate" increases for nights, overnights, weekends and holidays. BUT, just that 8hr/day at $25/hr plus the cost of the home, etc is MORE than the AL. Just some food for thought.

I understand the concerns. The local AL you found isn't exactly local. You can't really watch over his care if he is alone or in AL in NY. He wants to stay where he's been a long time. I would, like you, be concerned not only with what help he needs, but his isolation. Sure, he has friends, but you say their visits are not very often.

You say the plan to move is a year or two down the road. Would he take a trip with you, when you go house hunting, so he can see what it's like? Arrange tours for some of the AL places there, so he can see for himself. Some will offer a free meal, and you could ask them ahead of time to introduce some of their more gregarious residents to chat with you and your dad. Make him feel welcome. Show him around, etc. Meanwhile, make concessions with him, saying you plan to visit a few times/year yourself to see your friends, so he can check out his old friends and haunts during those trips. He can invite them down to visit him too! They might like that, esp in winter.

Make a list of the tasks he has difficulty with now (not talking about what you do, just the tasks HE can't manage) and show how at AL those are managed for him. Cleaning, laundry, perhaps some meals. Medication management can be part of that, but if he's just forgetting to take meds, I would suggest getting a timed locked dispenser - it will alert him and present the meds for that day/time he should take them. Of course the most you can get from these before refill is a month (if there are meds 2 or more diff times in the day, it will need more frequent refills.) If he stays, someone will need to be hired to fill it - aides are not allowed to handle medications, so it would be a more expensive nurse. If he moves, you can manage that.

If he's still refusing to go, after your move, ask him to come visit for a week or 2. He'd still have his place to go back to, but show him a good time while he's there! Do go overboard and wear him out, but if you can find places to go that he would really like or activities that he enjoys, he might start to like it!
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Do your research. Find out the cost for assisted living, full residential care, and home health aides in his area. Also prepare a sheet with costs for him living with you. Then, have a family meeting and let him see what is would take for him to continue to live in NY versus move to live with you. If he chooses to stay, help him to move into a facility that phases from assisted living to full care/memory care as his needs change.
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Would it be possible to talk him into splitting his time between NY and your new home in SC? What I'm thinking is that he will fall in love with the place and be willing to go full time with you after he has been there a while.
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disgustedtoo Apr 2021
Many older people become snow-birds, heading south for the winter! Some choose not to go back. I suggested a compromise of sorts, assuring the dad that they would visit several times/year - OP indicated she would likely be doing this, as she has friends in the area too.

My parents had a condo up here and one in FL. I was surprised that the decision was made to sell the FL place when it became too difficult to travel between them. My mother raved about the FL place all the time. I suspect it was more because most family was up here and many friends as well. I'm glad they did - the 1.5 hours each way to clear, clean and get repairs done on the condo here took almost 2 years for me to finish before we could sell it. I can't imagine how we (make that I - most everything has been done by me, very little help from brothers) could have dealt with one in FL!! Between my mother and my cats, I wouldn't be able to go stay there, and on top of that, I'm not a big fan of FL. Always look on the bright side!
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I have several comments. Do you have any idea how traumatic it is to give up your home? I had to do this because I became disabled and have never ever gotten over the impact in my life and how it affected me - it nearly killed me. You must realize the difficulty for him. Basically, I don't see how you can force him. ll you can do is get caretakers or perhaps "threaten" him that if he does not go with you, you will see he is placed somewhere. But here is something else to think about. Do you have any idea what it is like to take care of old people who are going down physically and mentally. Your life will be gone -and it might be far more difficult than you even can imagine.
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Di27813 Apr 2021
I love my Dad dearly and I know how hard taking him away will be as it’s also been my hometown for over 50 years. I have intentions to regularly visit a few times during the year after we move. For the last 55 years he has lived in a second floor apt of a old historic building that the landlords are neglecting (Ie: Many nights he’s gone without heat) which is another reason I’d like him to move.

I do know what it is like to care for the elderly...I helped my Dad take care of my Mom for the last 5 years until she passed at 87 last year from Parkinson’s. I’m still working full time with a family of my own to also take care of and am hoping to retire next year. It was difficult but I wouldn’t trade the time I spent helping take care of my mom for the world. We had hospice in the last few months along with home health aides as my Dad at 79yrs couldn’t lift any longer and we needed someone with mom 24/7.

This experience with mom taught me that the best care he will get is from me until his needs exceed what I can do. And that when aides or AL is needed I need to be close by to monitor and advocate on my Dads behalf.

My Dad is declining...I see the signs...I don’t want to wait for a disaster that will force him to move, although this may be what will happen. If possible I really want to avoid this stress on me and on him so I would like to find a way for him to be comfortable with coming with us. While I love my hometown, In my heart my home is where my family is.
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My mom wanted to live at home but has memory issues she hides very well. We prayed a great deal as to what to do. We were willing to do whatever was the Lord’s will. 8 months after we came to help mom in Florida, she is in a Atria Senior living facility Lady Lake for AL and MC. It is not all inclusive but even with all of the helps mom will be able to afford it and it would be 5000.00. It is near The Villages, FL and mom looked at it so she could stay there temporarily when we had to travel to a family event. She loved it! I know that God prepared her heart for this and I am so grateful. The food is delicious, she loves having an apartment and the staff are caring and kind. She gets her laundry done, her hair done, PT if needed and medical care/meds/doctors. Since your father was a chaplain, ask him to pray about this intentionally and be open to God’s best plan for him. We are so grateful. She will never get better and she is in a safe place. They did not have any covid cases with residents and are very diligent. No one could have changed mom’s mind but the prayers from us (and her). We are grateful. Mom has her independence and dignity much more than when we lived with her. She loves her condo. It is around 2900 a month base line and is 3100 with the medication schedule (she gets multiple meds 3 times a day).
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Di27813 Apr 2021
Thank you for your kind response.

My Dad is the same way...hiding memory issues although it’s becoming more apparent to him. Lately if he can’t remember something he just says it’s due to some holes in his brain due to his strokes.

I looked at an Atria Sr living here in NY...it was my favorite. I can’t get over the difference in cost...between $3-5,000 more here than in FL. I will check out their other locations and talk with my Dad about checking them out with me.

Prayer is definitely something I need to remind my self about. Such simple advice that will help my Dad and I a great deal. Thank you.
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And how does he convince you that being in the town he has lived in all his life is more important than making you his primary caregiver?

What support services can he access where he lives now? As he's already expecting - or anyway receiving, whether he *expects* it exactly or not - more and more from you, this is the time to start looking for resources he can then continue to draw on. Do you have any outside support at all with what you're doing for him currently?
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It will be more difficult to care for him long distance. Get all of the paperwork in order now: powers of attorney for medical and financial decisions, living will, will, some banks and financial institutions require their own power of attorney forms, get your name on file with social security and medicare as someone who can speak on his behalf, I got a credit card for my mother's account with my name on it, my mother let me be on her accounts as joint account which makes things even easier, etc. Some people even have burial plots purchased in advance. Talk to him about your taking over his finances. If he agrees, have all of his bills and statements sent to your address. You are asking a lot for him to move with you if he has strong ties to his community. You need to have the discussion with him about how he wants to live if he is no longer able to take care of himself. He might prefer living in a senior residence near you, rather than with you in your home. The other option is to hire aides to help him daily, and at some point he may need aides 24/7. Yes, it's a very considerate parent who does what you are asking, because it makes things much easier for the children. But some parents cannot bear the thought of not being independent.
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I know for my mother I never would have been able to have her leave her home and move.  She not only lived all her life in the village she lived all her life on the same street and the last 50 years in the house she & dad built.  I doubt she would have even considered being a snowbird because she would have worried too much about her empty house.  While we had no plans to move we did live over an hour away and were lucky that she had a good network of friends and neighbors nearby.  Her last couple of years her younger sister came and stayed with her during the week and I usually was there over the weekend,

I wish you the best in this transition.
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If your father is still of sound mind, maybe he will be willing to move into an assisted living community in his area. Or a hired caregiver one that's willing to move into his home at some point could help.
You will have to make him understand that you won't be able to physically help him from another state. Then let him decide. If he doesn't want to go you can't make him.
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While he is still competent you can't force him to do anything he doesn't want to do, even with a POA. At this time leave him in his home and continue to move as you plan.

Is he willing to have in home help with cleaning, with med management, with cooking - is there meals on wheels in your area or something comparable? Get him set up with in home assistance. Leave your contact information with the aide company, friends and Dr.s. It's all you can do at this point.

As his condition changes you revisit what his needs are and go from there. Who knows, after a few moths separation he may wan to join you.
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Your plan is to move in next year or two, so no need to get commitment out of him right now. In the future months, things could change with him and he may realize how important it will be to live closer to you.

Talk about your move and the things available in areas you are looking. Something may interest him. If he has money to continue living where he is, and is still healthy enough to live alone, he may decide to hire the help he needs. In fact, you could try that out now by being too busy to drop by to do laundry - have a cleaning lady go in to do some of the things you do. See how it goes. You could still go buy for visits, but the work transferred to someone else. Often when older people see how much something costs these days, they will be more agreeable to another way.

You can also discuss the harsh winters up north as opposed to a southern climate - falling on ice, unable for people to get in/out to help him. Discuss as though these are reasons YOU want to move - don't push on him as reasons he should move.
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If dad stays behind, no one knows how your dad is going to be after you move. That’s something that remains to be seen.

Set up as many resources as you can for him beforehand.

Take care of necessary legal paperwork too. Being further away you won’t be able to run to the rescue quickly any longer.

I am happy to see that you have made your decision based on your own desires.

Please don’t ever consider not moving due to your dad’s health.

Of course, you are concerned about him. You love him. In the end, his decision is his choice as to whether or not he wishes to move along with you.

I wish your family well and hope there is a resolution that suits each of you.

Enjoy Florida!
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B4 you move fell your father that you are going to take week to fi nd a place to live orsomeother story but stay at home so you can watch from afar and perhaps he will come to the realization that he can't do it by himself.. during that week you cannot call he cNt call me etc. Also take him to the license branch have a letter ready explaining the problem and they cAnfail him on the test or give a written test and fail him on it they can take his license and he can no longer drive this may be enough to change his mind. I know that lying is wrong but when it comes to his life versus safety for him and others God will understand.
Aybe when he puts his car keys on the dresser he will not find them in the morning. Good luck.
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So many good responses already given. I can just add two new thoughts. Start looking for your new home now. Make a list of what you do and don't want. I also suggest finding an airport within 1 hour of your new home. Check for airlines that fly there and availability of direct flights.
Secondly, perhaps Dad would like to join you as you narrow your choice for your retirement home. Maybe, Dad will begin to consider moving.
I add these thoughts to the many wonderful suggestions already given.
Best wishes to you.
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Imho, this, too, was my mother, who demanded to live in her own home several states away from mine. In the end, I had to move there. Perhaps set up resources now for your dad.
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Di ,

Is an in home caregiver an option for Dad?

As others have suggested, if you're not already POA(financial & medical), you need to start the process.

Also, Dads local Council on Aging is a great resource for questions you may have!

God bless!!
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