Quarterly update: narcissist miserable anxious mother with no permanent home by choice continues insanity.
sum: seen her 10x in 20 years. She left my father. She traveled world for 15 years in fancy places but on budget through demands. She is now 77. 100k in bank. We fund 35k. Social security 10k. 2-5 emails a day for this year with:
”are you going to let me die”
“if you think I am going to get on with my life you are in a fantasyland.”
”I’m not going to make it.”
”You want to buy me a house and you expect me to live alone?”
”the prices of houses have doubled - even if you are paying for it; now I have less money from you.”
”I don’t want you to buy me a house.”
”nobody does this alone.”
now, for the past year, rabbis, psychiatrists, my stepmother of all people and us have tried to come up
with solutions.
now she is begging us to “make a deal” that she can come to see us for 2 weeks and just get some love. We held our ground and said no. She said, let me come and then you can decide whether to buy me a house in California or put me in a home.
for background, she did not sacrifice for me. She divorced my father when I was 13, he raised me. She never paid a nickel for college or bought me anything. She was never there emotionally. Ever. She sent one email from 2014 where she showed that I thanked her for her ideas about a mosquito
problem. Her problems are worse, but she ignores my ocd saying it isn’t her fault. I recently had an incident where I lost feeling in my leg and my husband told her and she can’t see it. Even people with cancer have it better than her because they have family. My mil can’t walk, but she has a house. When we offer her a house, she says it’s different because my mil has been in her house. I know it is insane and I should just stop reading the emails. My husband has taken over and she bombards him. He’s ready to cut ties completely but we still want to monitor where she is and need to send her funds. There is still a nagging sadness that she isn’t welcomed by any family - but she was - she just abused everyone to a point of no contact by everyone. I’m not supposed to judge as I’m not g-d but it has deeply affected my family and it’s not ending.
Ok, well that’s illegal for moms to do, but turning their kid over to the state is not. If I were you, I’d tell her that’s what you would have preferred frankly.
Lets stop the ocd thought that she’d be instantly homeless or it’s your fault. Your mom gets social security and Medicare as is, and has 100k to spend.
I was also puzzled by the ocd part of her screen name. I certainly get the trauma part.
I think she did explain that she developed ocd behavior from all of this but has since been able to control the ocd behavior.
It’s not exactly clear to me though. For me, the ocd connection is more about her being compulsive in continuing to communicate with her mom and giving her so much money!
"https://www.agingcare.com/questions/mothers-constant-misery-is-destructive-she-wont-live-anywhere-any-advice-476776.htm"
I am with Burnt here. There's an expression my Mom used to say "either s**t or get off the pot" which means "you should either act now or accept that you will never do something"
I am sure ur therapist said "it will only get worse" but also said "until you do something about it" Your therapist needs to teach you the tools needed to deal with this woman. Your therapist needs to help you find out why you feel you must give this women what she wants. Why your frightened this woman will come to your front door. Why you feel she can blackmail you. Why you are probably looking for love that has never been there. I think u probably have abandoment issues. But you need to realize you owe this woman nothing. There is no law that says you must support her. She has visions of grandeur that you cannot support. Again, this therapist needs to give you the tools to be able to cut this woman off. To help you find out why you even feel obligated. She has not been a Mom to you since she walked out the door when she left her family.
I really don't think as a forum we can give you any more suggestions than we have. Its now up to you and your therapist to figure out how this woman should be handled. I say, continue to block her. Delete those phone calls before you even read them. Same with texts. Your therapist can lead u in the right direction.
Do come back and update us on your progress and how you finally get rid if this women. There are others like you that may get comfort knowing someone has successfully walked away from abuse.
When will the lot of you learn to stop acknowedging this troll and supporting her (or possibly his, who knows?) nonsense story?
For God's sake stop pouring gasoline on what is very obviously an already blazing dumpster fire.
OCD:
If your story is true shut down your mother's access to you. Have no contact with her. Get a restraining if you have to. Change your phone number and email address. Move somewhere else if needs be.
Your mother is not going to change. She is never going to respect or ever put your needs or anyone else's before her own.
If your story is real, then this is your truth.
I am curious about how you view yourself. Others see you as you view yourself. Do you realize this?
If a person continually views themselves as fearful, that is the image that you are presenting to them. What example do you wish to teach your son? He is observing your behavior.
So, we view you as this woman who is riddled with fear and anxiety. We do not see a strong confident woman who is capable of handling challenging situations.
Would you be willing to ‘role play’ with a therapist or even someone else who can be objective and see things from a different perspective than you.?
In other words, if someone else was in your situation, what would you say to them?
Would you advise them to do what you have been doing for all of these years with your mom?
Or would you think they were totally out of touch with reality if they followed your example?
Just think about that for awhile. Anyone in your situation who truly desired to solve the family drama that you have would not be doing what you are currently doing.
Others would handle this situation very differently. Don’t you realize that you are prolonging your agony by enabling your mother to emotionally and financially abuse you and your family?
I married my husband because he is a confident man. He isn’t arrogant. He knows who he is. I personally find that extremely attractive in my husband. This is why I fell in love with him.
Who do you want your husband to see as his wife? I know that he loves you. I don’t doubt that for a minute. The man is a saint in my book! Wouldn’t you like him to see a woman who is sure of herself and can stand up to her domineering mother?
End these shenanigans and live in peace with your family. All of you deserve that. Take that first step. Don’t stop until this mess is behind you and one day it will only be ancient history.
I hope that you and your family find peace and joy very soon. You’ve lived through enough heartache.
I doubt that she even has a plane ticket to California.
How many times has she visited you? She’s been practically a stranger in your life except for accepting your money!
She hasn’t followed through with her suicide threats either. She is the little boy who cried wolf.
Give her the least amount of money if you must so there would be no money left over to buy a plane ticket.
YOU paid for that flight if she even has a ticket!
Enough already! Resume your life with your family. You and your family deserve to have peace and happiness.
Stop giving your mother money.
Stop giving your mother money.
Stop giving your mother money.
Stop giving your mother money.
You don't have to answer the door.
You don't have to answer the door.
Cut off all communication.
Cut off all commumication.
"Thanks. Yes, trying to detach now. yes, my husband lost his job in 2018 and she still made it about her. She was cut back in funds to 30k. She claims this was the third time she lost her money. It took my husband 4 years to get a decent job. We also sold at the bottom of the markets as we couldn't stand losing more money when not working. We tried. Nothing works. No concern as she only sees how it affects her. We even asked her to help with his annuity business than he tried to start but she wouldn't do one hour a week. Yes, we have our little fibs - but they don't work as she sees us losing a job as her loss not ours! And...the idea that she would move somewhere was a one email thing - we would LOVE that as an investment. Much cheaper to buy vs. rent in the long-run. But, she doesn't want to settle anywhere. Thank you for your time!"
OcdTrauma, go to www.bogleheads.org.
You SOLD in 2018?
Geez. Has no one ever told you that "Time IN the market beats TIMING the market every time"?
Read any of John Bogle's books. And find a psychiatrist.
"Not one person on this feed told you that you should give her the love that she has been begging for"
Sorry, this woman does not know what love means. Love is a commitment. You marry and vow that you will love and honor the person you marry. You have a child, at least an 18 yr commitment, to love them and raise them to be good people. What does your Mom do...she leaves you and Dad to travel the world finding men to take care of her. She does not love any of them, she uses them. Like she is using you and your husband. Like she will do until she dies if u allow it. She cannot be satisfied and your driving yourself to a breakdown. She just wants and wants and expects someone to give it to her. Your it because she now is not attractive to men anymore. She has no money for these high end hotels. That is not your fault. This is how she chose to live. Seems to me you have done everything possible and she wants more. There is a time you need to say "NO MORE".
Now she wants to move across the Hall from your father and you seem to think thats OK. How about your Dad. Do u think he wants this crazy women leaving across from him. And you, you are so contradictory. You don't know if ur coming or going. There is no "honoring" this woman. I read one time that "honoring you Mother and Father" means the ones who have raised and sacrificed for you. That means they don't have to be a bio parent. My daughter owed her bio father nothing. He did nothing for her. Actually allowed her stepfather to adopt her. My DH was a father to her. He went thru all the ups, downs and joys. He is her Dad in every way.
Let the police do a well check. Let them call in APS. Let the State take over her care. I think you and your husband have done enough. You can't do anymore. She expects you to give and give without giving back in return. Do what you need to protect yourself. YOU ARE looking for love that is not there. No matter how much love u give, you will not get it back.
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/mothers-constant-misery-is-destructive-she-wont-live-anywhere-any-advice-476776.htm?orderby=recent&page=1�
All I had to do was read her initial post telling her story and a few responses to it to realize that it confirms just how delusional the OP is!
This is truly such a deeply seated issue that no amount of time that she spends reading a forum will help her.
She undoubtedly needs psychiatric help, as well as the rest of her family.
It isn’t about her financial status. It’s about allowing her mother to have control in her life.
What’s the old expression? Money doesn’t buy happiness. Yeah, that certainly applies in this situation.
No worries though, if she keeps giving away all of her money, she will soon find out what it is like to be free from her mom and poor!
She’s like the people who win a lottery and blow threw it all.
If a person will not accept the suggestion to seek help from a mental health professional, they can’t be helped. They feel as if they know best. Obviously, she doesn’t know best.
OP explained over and over she is able and willing to support mother financially, she is CFA, she knows what she is doing.
- a lot of financial investors who knew what they were doing got fooled with the current Crypto scam ...so, it happens
You said that she mentioned wanting to live across the hall from your father - maybe she should live near your father - would he be ok with that? It seems she's trying to reconcile relationships.
And one way to stop her from extorting more funds from you than what you're offering is - I think your husband needs to make a little fib when communicating with her. He should really lay it out there that (G-d forbid) you're both going thru major financial difficulties from whatever you want to say (ie a big loss from investments that were made, investment gone bad, job crisis situation, etc) - and that you both need to scale back and are worried for your own situation. And any time he speaks to her, he should tell her that he's worried about his own financial situation - and focus on that in conversation. I understand no one wants to create a lie like that, but it's out of survival, so she'll back off - if she knew that it's now hard to even commit to what you promised her financially to begin with, that amount may look a whole lot different now to her, given that she'd be lucky now to even get that. I think you need to say something drastic - or she'll continue trying to extort more.
And unless you're buying her a house so it's an investment for you, why wouldn't she just rent an apartment somewhere instead - one person doesn't need an entire house. That's too much. And even if she lived in California, it could be on the opposite end - southern calif - and least expensive city....or Arizona or other west coast states? It seems like no matter where she is, she bombards you with calls anyway if she doesn't get your attention.
Some mothers are just not meant to be mothers - they just don't have it in them. They're just limited. At this point, try not to take her personality to heart, or even seriously - totally detach yourself emotionally if you are able to and realize that she has major issues...it's what I try to do with my own toxic mother.
What do you fear if she shows up? Do you fear that you will be forced to say "yes" to all of her requests?
In your life, have you been able to say "no" to others? Have you, for example, had sex with everyone who asked? Given money to everyone who stuck out their hand?
Do you say "no" to your child, your husband, your friends on a regular basis?
Think about what is different about this hold that your mom has over you.
I have wondered this exact thing myself. With all of her mom’s suicide threats, have we ever read that her mom went to the hospital or a mental institution for attempting to kill herself? Nope, not even once. It’s the story of little boy crying wolf.
The mom knows how to play a good game of emotional blackmail.
The OP feels indebted to her mom, due to her belief in Chinese filial piety.
Mom and daughter are in need of mental health care. The husband and son as well. I feel most sorry for the son having to witness all of this dysfunctional activity.
Please don’t mix up ‘love’ with ‘Chinese filial piety.’ They are separate issues.
I urge you to look up the definition of love. You will see that Chinese filial piety and love have different meanings.
Your mother has begged for more than love. You can feel badly for her if you wish to but then call the police and allow them to bring her to a mental institution for an evaluation.
My guess is that all of a sudden she would no longer be suicidal. What’s your guess?
A mental institution isn’t going to be luxury. Have you seen a state mental institution before? Not fancy!
If you moved her to your city and saw her a couple of times a week it still wouldn't be good enough.
Have you ever seen the movie The Blob? Your mother is the blob. She consumes and devours anything in her path. Rabbis and others have been devoured and left in shock and disbelief. Nothing is ever enough to feed her hungry soul. Nothing you do will ever be enough to feed this emptiness in her. If your mother could shape shift into you and take your place she would.
Why not have the police do a wellness check? What's she going to do stop calling and emailing because you did? Ironic even the police told you to get a restraining order against her.
Pretty accurate assessment though of this situation.
Do you have the number of the place? Can you call them and check up on her suffering?
So many folks here with NPD parents hear about their terrible lives. But if they sneak in to check, the parent is talking, laughing, socializing.
Perhaps you are projecting your own suffering as an abandoned 13 year old onto this situation. I believe your mom is playing you.
Here is St. Louis APS:
https://health.mo.gov/safety/abuse/adult-protective-services.php
Thank you for your latest response to my post.
It’s interesting that your grandmother went through shock therapy and that your mother witnessed fighting between your grandparents.
Yet, your mother was still valedictorian. Something tells me that your mother was under a lot of pressure from your grandparents.
This news explains your situation in further detail. I’m sorry that your mom and grandparents went through such sadness in their lives.
Cycles often repeat themselves, which is terribly sad. My wish for you is that you can be the one to break the cycle now. You deserve to have peace and joy in your life with your husband and son.
I know that it hurts you to see that your mom is in despair. I am sure that she is truly frightened. She has depended upon having you as her lifeline for a very long time.
Do you really think that she would harm herself? She has threatened this many times to you. Has she ever made a suicide attempt in the past?
I hope this all works out for you and your family.
Another possibility is calling APS in that area and reporting her as a vulnerable adult in need of care.
me find a place to live.” “ Because if you reject me and leave me alone suffering much day after day alone in the room and the temperature is dropping to minus Celsius and I’m facing a highway and I’m not coping at all.” She is still in the luxury place but I have no doubt she is falling apart. This is completely out of hand. I don’t think this thread can help me much more because you’ve told me what to do – call a therapist, call the police if she comes here although it might be too late by that point – call adult protective services in her area although that will not work because she will tell them she is fine and just wants to see family and not be alone. Now she is telling us to buy her a place across the hall from my dad who she divorced 35 years ago. This is going to be a really tough 10 days.
I also think an appointment with a cfa is in order for the same reason that wise doctors decide not to treat themselves.
I think you need to seek the help from a Family Lawyer - put it in his hands. He should send her a legal letter with specific instructions - you should find a nice senior living community for her in Florida - she'll meet people, social activities - and maybe she'll find some type of belonging with new friends - make a new family for herself. That's her option - take it or leave it. If not, then offer her nothing - that's the deal. No money, nothing going forward - step away. The lawyer should be the intermediary handling all details - not you - not your husband. Change your email address - same for your husband...why is he calling her each week? It's only leading her on - dangling a carrot - it's giving her false hope that maybe you'll give in and see her.
You can't have it both ways - you're trying to satisfy something by knowing where she is - and yet, keeping her away from you. It's clear that it's just not working, so something has to give. Get a lawyer involved - distance yourself - allow your husband the same - he must want a break from stepping in for you. If she continues harassing you, then the lawyer will advise next steps and do the work. End this drama situation already.
Some of us are passionate about the importance of seeking professional help because we have benefited from it ourselves.
When I was dealing with issues while I was caring for my mother in my home, I certainly couldn’t see how I was creating some of my own problems. I became sick and tired of being sick and tired and sought therapy.
My therapist had an objective assessment of the situation and helped me to understand many aspects of my own behavior and of my mother’s situation. I am grateful for what I discovered in therapy.
The OP will have to decide what is the best way to resolve her issues with her mom. It will take time for her to figure it out. Maybe therapy will be the answer for her, maybe it won’t.
Regardless, I hope things will work out for her. Let’s hope that it won’t continue on this way and the only way that this situation ends is with her mom’s death.
Sadly, I know some people who have been in situations where they were never able to detach from their parents and it went on until the parent died which is truly sad.
The OP feels that therapy won’t do any good. She private messaged me once and said that even if she went to therapy it wouldn’t stop her mom from harassing her.
She doesn’t see how it would help if she changed her reaction to her mom’s harassment.
She claims that she doesn’t ‘love’ her mom but feels like it is a moral dilemma. She feels an obligation to take care of her mom.
She is resentful of her mom taking advantage of her. Nevertheless, she isn’t able to detach.
Her husband is involved because he is trying to please his wife. The stepmom has tried also. They have good intentions but they are only adding to the problem. The OP doesn’t see any of this clearly.
Some people will never allow their parents to become wards of the state, no matter how much misery they cause.
She won’t call the police or mental health professionals to intervene either. She is extremely loyal to her mom. She asked me if I was familiar with Chinese filial piety. She truly believes that she is responsible for her mother until her mother dies.
Of course, her mother has serious mental illness and doesn’t care about anyone else but herself. Maybe her mother’s mom treated her the same way. So, the cycle continues.
It’s similar to being in a cult. People don’t just walk away from cults. They need help to get out and help after they get out because they have become so dependent upon the cult.
Some people experience a similar situation with religion. They may not be happy in the religion they were raised in but they feel an obligation to remain in it.
Others feel like they can’t walk away from a bad marriage because they feel that they should remain married until their death.
No one should remain in any abusive situation but some people need lots of understanding and support to free themselves from it.
I don’t feel that she enjoys being in pain. She isn’t in the same category as a masochistic person who feels pleasure from their pain.
Certainly, some people feel sorry for themselves and they enjoy the attention they receive from complaining to others. They don’t seem to be happy unless they are miserable and love making others miserable along with them. I don’t think that is the case here.
She’s not looking for attention. She’s trying to express her feelings and looking for guidance.
How fast do you think you can turn around a lifetime of dysfunction?
The "mother" did the predictable--threatened to die and called in the flying monkeys.
The OP needs encouragement to keep on keeping on, not bashing.
OCD, how are you doing with detaching today?
Every sane parent wants their kid to excel more than them, ocd included.
Ocd, plan for giving YOUR child the best. If he doesn’t get into Lowell, but does at Serra or SI, wouldn’t you rather he had the best? Same with college.
You need a million bucks stashed at whatever inflation is minimum. More as si and Serra are about 45k a year.
You have enormous empathy for your mother even if she has been abusive towards you and your family.
You feel that you must be loyal and honor her. Therapy will help you to detach.
My wish for you is that you will be able to find equal compassion for yourself, your husband and your son.
It’s okay to feel sad that your mom is not emotionally stable enough to live a normal life. Don’t allow this fact to overshadow your own needs.
I have an annoying GP who reacts when Dr Google and I have made our own guesses about an ailment. His comment is “And where did you get YOUR medical degree from’. He could probably annoy you too.
[Psychologists have found correlations between filial piety and lower socio-economic status, female gender, elders, minorities, and non-westernized cultures. Traditional filial piety beliefs have been connected with positive outcomes for the community and society, care for elder family members, positive family relationships and solidarity. On the other side, it has also been related to an orientation to the past, resistance to cognitive change, superstition and fatalism; dogmatism, authoritarianism, and conformism, as well as a belief in the superiority of one's culture; and lack of active, critical and creative learning attitudes.[62] Ho connects the value of filial piety with authoritarian moralism and cognitive conservatism in Chinese patterns of socialization, basing himself on findings among subjects in Hong Kong and Taiwan. He defines authoritarian moralism as hierarchical authority ranking in family and institutions, as well as the pervasiveness of using moral precepts as criteria of measuring people. Cognitive moralism he derives from social psychologist Anthony Greenwald, and means a "disposition to preserve existing knowledge structures" and resistance to change. He concludes that filial piety appears to have a negative effect on psychological development, but at the same time, partly explains the high motivation of Chinese people to achieve academic results.[63]
In family counselling research, filial piety has been seen to help establish bonding with parents.[64] Ho argues that the value filial piety brings along an obligation to raise one's children in a moral way to prevent disgrace to the family.[65] However, filial piety has also been found to perpetuate dysfunctional family patterns such as child abuse: there may be both positive and negative psychological effects.[66] Francis Hsu made the argument that when taken to the level of the family at large, pro-family attitudes informed by filial piety can lead to nepotism, corruption and eventually are at tension with the good of the state as whole.]
Even if the OP has been to a therapist in the past, she needs continuing care until this situation is resolved. I truly hope that she seeks help from a licensed professional.
Her past and current situation should be addressed. She needs to learn how to detach herself from her mother and move forward in her own life.
My own experience was with the more common OCD types – eg is the stove really turned off??? Your mother’s lifelong dissatisfaction with where to live and who to live with, could be another unusual type - and the Mayo Clinic’s useful web site suggests that repeated family history can occur..
I am genuinely concerned that all the nice people on this site may be reinforcing OCD that needs proper treatment. Please could you tell us your medical history in dealing with OCD – the name you chose for yourself. You need to cope better.