I have a mother who is 69 and able bodied, very healthy and was planning to work full time at least until her mid seventies. During Covid she lost her job and decided to go ahead and retire. We own the house she lives in and charge her way under market value. Even at what we charge her, it is still a stretch for her on a fixed income. We have decided to sell the home since we are moving. She is very upset, understandably. She could go back to work and afford to possibly buy the house herself. But she refuses to work, other than a few hours a week for a neighbor she helps with Alzheimer’s. Her family pays her cash. She is very healthy and now even helps aging neighbors who actually need it.
She is very upset with me and calling me ‘selfish’ because I am ‘kicking her out’ of her home. I have given her more than a year warning, this is not something imminent, giving her plenty of time to find other arrangements, decide if she wants to work or not etc.. We bought this home when my now deceased step father was terminally ill to move them closer to us so I could take care of him and she could continue to work. He was self employed most of his life and didn’t manage for his retirement very well, so there is little to no savings. She has gone through quite a bit of what she has just to stay in the home we own.
She wants to make absolutely no concessions in her lifestyle. We considered having her move in with us, but I don’t think that would be good for any of us. It would just be enabling her and pre-aging her and legitimizing her ‘old’ mindset and view of herself.
I have been her enabler, ‘rock’ and co-dependent for years. I have been doing a lot of healing, therapy and inner work and realizing this is not a healthy dynamic for either of us. She is not going to go willingly though, in fact kicking and screaming almost childlike. She seems to feel entitled to be treated like one of my actual children.
She has worked herself into a negative spiral of emotions and I think might be depressed now, but refusing to speak to anyone or go to any counseling. I have offered to help pay etc… Feeling conflicted, the people pleaser in me just wants to give in just to make peace again and or back track on my word. My sisters are both supportive and happy that I have finally taken a stand and asked our mom to be more independent and not rely on me so much. They feel she has manipulated me for years.
In just a few short weeks of conversations I have gone from being her ‘rock’ to self centered and uncaring in her eyes. I am very sad and worried, hoping we can get past this. At times I am believing her thoughts about me and doubting myself…
Any advice welcomed…
Then to the divorces in the US. Thank you, USA, for that! Being divorced is highly preferable to being repeatedly attacked by a husband, cheated on, sabotaged, stolen from, slandered, and sexually and emotionally abused. American women can divorce these creeps because we are educated and empowered to take responsibility for ourselves and our families. Our, shall I say, possibly "superior" economic culture in the US enables us to do that.
Where do get the notion that you can come over to this forum (or anywhere else for that matter) and insult American culture and American people?
You have no right to do that.
As for your complete nonsense as to why American men go over to these 'Asian' countries to find women. I'll tell the real reason. It's not because these Asian women are more loving and respectful to men.
No, my friend. It's a BUSINESS transaction. Some guy with nothing going for him can't get a good American woman. This would be because women like me have standards that the men in our lives have to meet if they want to be in our lives. We pay our own bills. We make our own decisions. We don't need some loser to rescue us. A woman who respects herself does not depend on a man to take care of her. I would never and have never been in a relationship where the roof over my head and the food on my plate depended on how well I please and serve the man sleeping next to me.
H*ll to the NO on that thank-you very much.
Let's get back to the loser American guy we were just chatting about a paragraph ago. He's a real loser by the standards of a good American woman. He looks like a real prince to those poor ladies down in a third-world country though. All he has to do is take a wad of cash (which isn't much here) and head down to an impoverished village in some Asian country and wave that money around. Within five minutes it will be love at first sight and the prettiest girls in town will be kneeling at his feet. These guys don't even have to go in person anymore. Just put up a profile on line and he'll have his pick.
Beautiful, third-world honey hooks up with a first-world loser. Financial support for her and her family in exchange for sex. Then once he makes her legal she really scams him proper.
Then there's the other reason why all these men head over to those Asian countries. This was explained to me by my brother who was in the navy and stationed in an 'Asian' country. Those girls will do anything. They want that meal-ticket and American $$$.
So please, You should stop.
Also, many people here had lousy and abusive parents. They also had abusive spouses. So they don't take care of them. It does not speak to a person's morality and character if they are willing to live in an abusive situation. A woman who is willing to live as a care slave to an abusive parent or spouse is not a better person than one who is not willing to.
You have a lot to learn about life and people, my friend.
American women (eg. You) have a ridiculous sense of entitlement. When it comes to certain things like we’re all equal and how dare you treat us differently, yet on other things they want men to be men and women to be women. One moment it’s “I don’t need your help just because you’re a man and I’m a woman” and the next it’s “but you’re the man, and I’m the woman, so you’re supposed to take care of me.” lol
You really think a high value man would need someone like you who call themselves "independant"? Hell no. They enjoy company of traditional women. Why you think you're already a divorced woman? That's cause women like you are nothing but an instant red flag. Your ego is way over up to maintain a proper relationship. You should rather buy bunch of cats and spend the rest of your life with them. Peace ✌🏼
Hopefully nice new year fresh starts.
Maybe the OP is reading the responses and maybe not.
It’s a mystery!
We DO NOT owe our parents our entire lives!
For everyone who says, “They raised us, so now it’s our turn to give back to them.”
It is a parent’s responsibility to raise us! Children don’t ask to be born. A couple makes the decision to bring a child into this world. They shouldn’t expect to be ‘paid back’ for their child rearing. No one forced them to have a child.
Truly good parents raise us to be independent human beings and rejoice with us when we accomplish our goals.
I would NEVER in a million years expect my daughters to give up their lives to care for me. They deserve to live their own lives. I raised them to live independently, and certainly not ever to be my caregiver.
The OP is obviously a little greedy but not entirely in the wrong. She does not have to support her mother for life the same as a parent does not have to support their child for life. When either is in a situation where they are expected to that is dysfunction and abusive neediness and both should think about going to therapy.
The OP has given her mother a full year to find another place to live. She even tried to help her find a place. That's loving and decent.
The mother is not indigent. She has permanent income and can afford to move to a senior apartment. She also has the option to buy the house she lives in but would have to get a job to be able to. She is not a poor, old lady that's indigent who's being thrown out into the street by her evil daughter when she can't afford to live anywhere else. She can't afford to live in the house her daughter is selling unless she can afford to buy it.
That's not the same thing as becoming homeless and living under a bridge because you can't afford a rent.
Rather than looking for an apartment in a senior community and getting on a few waiting lists over the last year, the mother spent that time bullying, gaslighting, and guilt-tripping her daughter hoping to wear her down so the living arrangment her mother enjoys will continue. That's wrong.
No one 70 years old should have to go back to work out of necessity otherwise they will be out on the street if they don't. That isn't the case here. The mother doesn't WANT to move to a different location. Too damn bad. The daughter's selling the house. Find an apartment.
Trying my best to advise many possible options with prayers. Thank you.
Happy New Year!
Patathome01
Are you scared like your mother is? What type of job did your mother do before she lost it?? Your widowed mother is 69 and needs a break. How is she doing by this time??
FYI, both my parents retired when they were 63 and they lived in their house and me and my brother took care of them financially and physically everytime when they're in need. But when my father passed away at the age of 76, I took my mother to live with us and both me and my wife taking care of her to the fullest. We don't charge a jack from my mom for living in our house. Her grandchildren enjoy her company and thats what makes a happy family. Thank God my wife and my brother doesn't have the same mind set as most of these people have in this forum.
Could you calculate the amount of rent she's paid to you over the years and return that to her when you sell the house? That would provide her with a nest egg.
You are unbelievable, can hardly believe what you just posted, calling her cruel. Are you kidding me?
Why don't you take her mother in and support her, sounds like a plan to me.
If she doesn't get a job, would she qualify for Medicaid with her Social Security income? Is there a way that she can afford housing and essentials without going back to work?
She is 69, well past what people consider retirement age. Help her to move on in a way that does not require her to have a job. She is going to call you all kinds of names in the book. Unfortunately, that is the way some people are.
Don't change your plans. Help her with planning her future.
That is immature. You have her enough time. Making a firm stand is hard. Up to now her bullying and talking bought her time. Face some tears and move and I wonder if she will surprise you and be ok because then she has to rely on herself
good luck
Real estate is just not like a cash acount at a bank where one can transfer funds to a new account In a new location, then close the former account. I've worked in banking for over 30 years with accounting experience.
So, can't your mother go to the county to work out some alternate housing arrangements until she is stabilized, then you can even lease out with tenants Iiving in the house with an option to buy until your house does get sold??
Would you be able to continue the current arrangement until after you move? Wouldn’t that relieve a lot of your stress for the time being?
I understand that your concern is she will run out of money to pay you even that. Soooooo…….
then, perhaps some time after you move and settle in, would you consider selling the home she lives in, taking half that amount and perhaps buying her a smaller home or apartment?
That way, she won’t have to pay rent, so you won’t have to worry about her running through what little money she’s got, and you will still have half the money from the sale, plus you’ll save on some real estate taxes with the new purchase, which will continue gaining value for sale in the future.
Just a thought. The idea is to try and keep the stress and grief at bay while having a practical financial solution.
also, you won’t be “kicking her out.” ;)
hope that helps.
Yes. If she refuses to move, you’re looking at going through the eviction process. That is a memorable event that no one wants to repeat.
From the OP’s description this is someone who likely has income from SS, withdrawals from dwindling savings, and some off the books work. There’s no reason to believe she isn’t paying $750 a month in rent for a 2 or 3 bedroom home that has a market rent of $1,500 and doesn’t want to move to a studio or shared home to save money, or pay $1,000 for an apartment. (Edited to delete assumed location)
Everyone tends to view things from their own experiences. There are a lot of caregivers here dealing with family who really are destitute, disabled, or incompetent. Others have people in their circle dealing with folks with free will and a history of poor decision making. Deciding to subsidize someone for the rest of their lives will depend on which group they fall into, how sustainable it is, and how much sacrifice is tolerable.
You sound like an awesome mom and your daughter is very lucky to have a mother like you.
I was advised years ago not to buy a house for a family to rent from me. In this case, it sounds like it was a noble idea, but it's often complicated.
I do not understand why people continue to think that the younger generation are supposed to be clones of ‘The Waltons’ television show. They could resolve their issues by the end of the episode. That isn’t how it works in real life! The problems go on for years.
I should know! I allowed my mom to live with me for over a decade. It’s hard! I find that a lot of people who recommend that others take in their parents have never walked in their shoes. Swap places and see how difficult it is.
Never in a million years will I do this to my daughters. They deserve lives of their own without an aging parent living with them.
I'm going to share the facts about my last job with a recycled items store doing processing in the back and rolling racks of items presented for sale. Those tasks I loved doing. I started working there in February 2021. The day I had started work, I was assigned to clean their breakrooms and bathrooms, yes, the men's as well, because the store left the janitorial service go due to Covid in 2020. That assignment was rotating weekly with all staff, so I worked it an average of 20 minutes daily that week assigned in addition to our regular duties. Later, like August into early September 2021, several employees quit when told to work a sixth day for OT. So, I ended up with cleaning twice a month with reduced staff.
Where was the safety practice for Covid? God only knows! I did not get my original series vaccination until April 2021, so lucky I survived Covid since I still had to earn money. I turned 66 in September and was happy to quit and retire from that place. So, I don't trust any more employers since its likely they all want to cut their friggin expenses. They will do anything they want and make us employees fill in to do the dirty work to save their business a few bucks.
By the way, I am now 67 with some health conditions, the newest being contact dermatitis and now require skin patching for possible allergies that will take 3 me to conscecutive appointments no employer may appreciate my absence. And no suitable work to accommodate me exists anymore. I feel I have outlived work myself and got a break from difficult job responsibilities for just minimum wage.
He says that his mom is healthy enough to work.
I hope your mom is able to find work soon.
There are senior citizens apartments with lower rent that are available. They charge accordingly to a person’s income. My cousin lives in one of these. She likes it. They provide a shuttle bus to the store, doctors and pharmacies.
She should start looking immediately because there is usually a wait list.
Best wishes to you and your family.
Look at the Dept of Aging for assistance. Your mother should have Social Security and Medicare. There should be subsidized housing for seniors she could qualify for where she would be happy to live. Independence from you for your mother and for you is the key. It reminds me of a chant my mother used to almost sing with a French lilt of the word “Independence.”
Your mother would be with her peers. Going back to work would be a stretch at this point.
I understand why you are moving. It is for tax purposes, to reduce your footprint, to eliminate your mother’s dependence on you and to move on to the next chapter of your life with your family.
Your mother didn’t plan, didn’t think about the future and now sees everything going up in smoke. A redirect through a different means like a subsidized apartment, which may be a lot smaller than she is used to having, but a lot less work, allowing her more social interaction, would be the best.
Why are you moving?
What "other arrangements" can she find when all her money goes to you! First, last and deposits are about $3000 where I live. She can't save up for that if you are charging her rent. You say you offered to pay for counseling but that is so high and mighty of you! So you are a psychologist now!
Ummmmm you have NO plan. You have sold your soul to the idea of her stepping up into near full time employment again. You are trying to control her for the fun of it!
You aren't being realistic. You can't go from top of the line service to her, to bottom of the barrel abandoning her, without a financial transition. I even wonder if you are selling just to get rid of her! Your motives are really questionable here. It's one thing to recover from a dysfunctional family but another thing entirely to overreact late in life. How in the world do you think "we can get past this" when you have NO plan for her shelter! She's not going to "get past this" if she's homeless. She has retired, which for most people is a final and complicated decision (except for some part time work). But it takes a full time income to afford housing nowadays. You have stricken fear of not surviving in her heart. She probably can't even think and probably worries 24/7 about how she is going to find shelter.
Ummmmm she is a retired widow who cannot afford housing. Presumably once she retired (for official purposes), she can't just pick up gainful employment again or she'll mess up her SS income and health insurance. Your idea of her buying a home is nuts - she wouldn't even have a down payment even if she worked full time for 6 months. Does she even have enough good credit to qualify for a mortgage?
Ummmmm you say you are codependent, enabling, a rock... but you're acting with wanton abandonment. You need to get her on all of the wait lists for the:
Local City Housing Authority low-income housing and Section 8
Nearby Cities Housing Authorities low-income housing and Section 8
Distant Cities Housing Authorities where she has loved ones low-income housing and Section 8
Distant Counties Housing Authorities where she has loved ones low-income housing and Section 8
Local County Housing Authority low-income housing and Section 8
Food Stamps
Introduce her to food banks
Get her a Social Worker
Get her on welfare: State Cash Assistance to the Blind, Disabled and Aged which leads to other housing possibilities through their department.
Encourage her to meet men and re-marry
Encourage her to make friends who could be housemates or apartment-mates
Supervise her and shepard her through Craigslist and other sites, senior sites, to find housemates safely by meeting in public first a couple times
You haven't mentioned one reason why you and she cannot abide, other than your opinion that this widow should be on her own. Is there some reason family can't stay together? Does she break rules, fight, fail to clean up after herself, bring strangers home, make noise at night, fail to pay her portion of rent, steal? Do you want more privacy? Maybe a mother-in-law unit would be better. You have the power to raise her rent, thus forcing her into part time work or welfare in order to compensate. You can get your money - although you might have to evict her if she doesn't come up with it. But to leave her homeless...
Likewise, working after her “full” Social Security retirement age (likely 66) doesn’t have an impact on SS income. Postponing the SS application to 70 would have given her the largest possible check, but it is unlikely that she can do anything about that now if she applied when she “retired.”
There is a maximum amount one can earn without penalty if one retires early, e.g., at 62, but that would have gone away long before age 69. As a widow, she likely keeps the higher of the couple’s SS checks even if hers was the smaller one.
A year’s notice should give her time to apply to some of the programs listed and/or adjust her lifestyle (get some roommates; work more hours; find a live-in position.)
I wouldn’t want to have a long term, long distance, below market rental with a tenant with declining income either. I don’t suppose she is the kind of person who has been handling the do it yourself home maintenance and repairs in return for reduced rent?