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I'm glad to help. Sounds like some systemic dysfunction coming from somewhere in that family with two suicides.
Stay focused on what needs to be done and don't get hoovered into her drama which my guess is she's probably capable of creating a tornado and then stepping inside of it but then pretend to be its victim. I hope that I'm wrong, but it is wise for you and your husband to stay focused. Best to you!
You are right. I hadn't even thought of that; however, I'm sure my husband will never listen to that kind of rant again for more than a few seconds. He won't even speak to her right now; not because he is angry, but he knows where he needs to stay focused and trying to have any discussion with her now would add more heartache to this situation.
It's a real shame. This family lost a brother to suicide two years ago, and a half-brother also took his own life about 4 months ago.
singpeace, It is not healthy for you or anyone to endure a person's rage on the phone for an hour nor in person for any amount of time at all. It does not do them any good either because then they see that as a weakness and a boundary that they can break again with their intrusive rage.
Sometimes, when it comes to family matters, the most logically trained military or police person can lose their ability to reason. I've seen it up close and personal.
Thanks Lynn. That is great advice, and I will work on those questions as I pray for the Father to keep me in check with what He wants me to do as sis-n-law. I'll also present this advice to my husband.
Crowemagnum, in 17 years I have been married to husband (R), this sis (I'll call her M.) has never once gone into any rage that I know of. However; she has been in therapy for years due to being the adult child of a very abusive alcoholic father (they all had to live through it). She and I are like real sisters; not in-laws. The caregiver sis (call her D.) has always been a little cool toward me, and I have never really felt comfortable around her because of it.
Now, R. and I go to D.s house every other week and stay a few nights so she can go out with her husband, run errands, stay in motel, or even go on a trip. She and I have therefore been placed in a situation where caring for Mom is a common goal. If D decides to stay while we're there, I help at every opportunity with dressing mom, cleaning house etc. This has opened up lines of communication between us. She is a bit warmer toward me now, and I don't feel so uncomfortable anymore.
During a recent hosp. stay for one of mom's infections, it was M's turn to stay the night. M. spoke with Dr. and told him she suspected D of mis-handling Mom's funds and meds, and of exaggerating Mom's condition. M is a 20+ year veteran Invistigator with human resources and the like. That's why it's so strange that she seems to have has lost her ability to reason in this matter; she's been trained all her adult life to see logic and to focus on facts. Anywho, because of her cop-nature, the dr found her believable enough to seriously doubt Mom's safety; and D had to use her power of attorney to override the Dr's order to place mom in a home! She told him M had lied and was not even privy to all facts as she rarely visits mom. Then she took Mom back home (where she belongs).
I reached out to M and suggested that she consider forgiving D for the years of hurts and wipe the slate clean. I said, ". . . You don't have to be buddies, but putting the past behind; at least for now, would allow you to have some very precious moments with mom. Fight later, or wash your hands, if that's what you need to do. At least put the anger on hold for the next few weeks/months." THOSE words are what sent her into a rage that lasted over an hour on the phone where she cursed my husband, R viciously and accused him of going over to the 'enemy's side'. It was bazaar to say the least.
I am praying for healing between the sisters and for grace and strength for husband. I pray that mom suffer as little as possible and that this not last longer than it has to. In the meantime, I extend what I hope is perceived as unconditional love to everyone involved, the best ways I can.
Thank you for reading my posts. Thank you for wisdom. God bless. Singpeace
Mamajean, you are a very wise woman. I think that sometimes we have to recognize that just because someone else is petty, angry, whatever..it doesn't mean that you have to react to it. Just keep truckin along, doing whatever it is that needs to be done and go on with life. Goodness knows it's far to precious worring about the silliness of others.
We have the very same problem, one sister is always angry or resentful towards someone in the family. A sister that dosen't seem to be happy with any arrangement or anything the rest of us do for our mother.
It seems, none of us can make her happy; some in the family, have washed their hands of her bitterness and choose not to be around her. I think most of her anger stems from past hurts; she's a very unhappy individual and I beleive can't even find peace with herself.
With many prayers, I try to do what's right and what I feel God wants me to do. I was appointed DPOA by our mother years ago and I feel blessed that she trusted me to act on her behalf. I'm not responsible for my families happiness only mine and I'm learning, when the storm hits and the seas get rough; I pull up anchor and ride the tide and do what's best for me!
Sing - That's a touchy situation - you don't want to alientate either for your husbands sake if nothing else. If it were me, I'd try to talk with the mad sister and ask her what she wants done differently. Often asking them what they want versus letting them gripe really wakes them up. If they have rattle off a list of things they want, then ask WHY they want it. This ought to bring some things to light. Then when they explain the "why", ask if it's the best thing for your mom-in-law. Again ask WHY to each of those responses. This will help the mad sister and you understand if it's really about Mom's needs or sisters' ego. YOU can't force any change and it might not be dramatic or some quicky. Angry sis might need counseling to work on ALL her issues. This is the situation with my brother - he's just a narcissistic jerk, incapable about thinking of others needs, even his own kids! Sometimes it's just not possible so I let it go. I'm much happier and less stressed - that's all I can control - my reactions.. Good luck
The one who goes into fits of rage over past hurts sounds like she has no emotional impulse control which may well mean it has a diagnosis and can be treated. Rages are often not rational and very intelligent and well educated people sometimes have this anger/rage problem which reason and particularly from a family member will not reach for it becomes much like arguing with an alcoholic except in this case, the person is drunk with anger.
I have a question: I am the sis-n-law and love my in-laws. One sis is caregiver and other is in a fit of rage most of the time from past hurts.
Both are intelligent, educated, good-hearted souls. Both are logical-minded.
How can help, or is there any hope that the angry sis would understand this is not about her and she is losing a precious opportunity as the window is closing?
My sister is very angry at me for have POA. I acted quickly to have myself appointed b/c mom is very wishy-washy about decisions such as to stay independent or go into assisted living, which is really where she needed to be. I work and have other responsibilities and my sister is stuck at home baby-sitting her grandbabies. Thus, when we get numerous calls from mom wanting us to come see her b/c of panic attacks, pain, etc. it can't always be done and is exhauting! SO---when mom said that she wanted to move into assisted living I quickly drew up a poa from an on-line lawyer, took her to a notary. It needed to be done before she completely became demented. My sister thinks I did this behind her back so that I could have control over mom and keep money for myself! My name has been on all of mom's accounts for quite a while so that I can help her pay her bills. I monitor her bank account have found instances where my brother and sister have taken advantage of mom and has checks made out to them! I have never asked for or received any money from mom. My sister must think that having POA is a title of glory and has no idea of the number of hours I put into managing mom's bills, care at the assisted living facility, balancing and transferring money among her accounts to pay the bills, etc!!! I would willingly turn over the POA to my sister but it would be a disaster since she doesn't own or know anything about computers and can't even manage her own checking account!! She has called me up, cursing at me, "You're nothing but a fu....bitch!" Also, she has given me minimal help in cleaning out mom's house in preparation of selling it. When mom is gone, I will have no further contact with her, and possibly my brother, also. Remember the slogan "You can pick your friends but not your family." How true!!!
I agree with the above post. There is no need to argue, fuss, or fight. You just do what needs to be done and really and truly you don't have to explain a thing.
I love the above posts. It does take two to argue. You can choose not to participate. You don't have to be ugly, or mean, just don't participate. I have found that gently explaining something along the lines of " I was appointed by the courts to assume this role. In as much, it is my responsibility to take care of these tasks." Period. End of Subject.
We had similar problems 'co-ordinating' tasks/activities/resources. You can search for "lotsahelpinghands". I used a free resource from this site and created a FREE website to coordinate (even AVOID) other family members while organizing things for Mom. It worked quite nicely most of the time.
I know that DPOA and healthcare proxy are challenging duties for anyone, and you will be blessed for doing so much against so much opposition.
If you continue to have too many problems, try involving an OMSBUDSMAN and a family meeting to decide what needs to be done.
Being 300 miles away is going to make everything even tougher, and my heart goes out to you.
Here's something that is sure tempting to do with some people in my own family. When I'm conducting my mother's financial affairs as her durable POA, it is as if she were saying it or doing it. So, other family members just as well get use to you being your mom's spokesperson and keep her bills paid, etc. Nothing personal, just business since my mother appointed me to look after her business. If I said all of that, I probably would only escalate the situation.
I wish you well. Situations like yours make me feel real good abot being an only child.
My experience is that it's best to NOT argue with that person/persons. And, when deciding what to do, consider whether you want to have a relationship with these people after your parent passes away. Give yourself permission to decide what type of people you want in your life and permission to let them go once your parent passes away. A tactic I've used is to say, "Mom/Dad trusted Him/her to make decisions and we have no legal recourse until we suspect GROSE abuse. She/he will make decisions for the benefit of Mom/Dad not the rest of us. If YOU want to pay for an attorney go ahead but remember, any inheritance left may be eaten up by legal fees due to your actions." Say this over and over; don't say anything else. Don't agree with the complainer, don't ask what they think or for their opinion. Eventually, the complainer will realize you won't play their game and they'll stop ranting and raving.
When I was DoA for my Dad, I avoided a brother at all costs and I have very little to do with him now. He would not be reasonable and only wanted money and belongings; he had no concern for my dads feelings or dads emotional well being. This tactic worked on him, he quit complaining around me when he realized I would not jump on his cause or give him any money. Once mom's gone, I'll never see him again. I am much happier for it; it's a huge relief to realize I can decide NOT to have that type of person in my world.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I'm glad to help. Sounds like some systemic dysfunction coming from somewhere in that family with two suicides.
Stay focused on what needs to be done and don't get hoovered into her drama which my guess is she's probably capable of creating a tornado and then stepping inside of it but then pretend to be its victim. I hope that I'm wrong, but it is wise for you and your husband to stay focused. Best to you!
You are right. I hadn't even thought of that; however, I'm sure my husband will never listen to that kind of rant again for more than a few seconds. He won't even speak to her right now; not because he is angry, but he knows where he needs to stay focused and trying to have any discussion with her now would add more heartache to this situation.
It's a real shame. This family lost a brother to suicide two years ago, and a half-brother also took his own life about 4 months ago.
Thanks for the encouragement/admonishment/advice.
Sometimes, when it comes to family matters, the most logically trained military or police person can lose their ability to reason. I've seen it up close and personal.
Thanks Lynn. That is great advice, and I will work on those questions as I pray for the Father to keep me in check with what He wants me to do as sis-n-law. I'll also present this advice to my husband.
Crowemagnum, in 17 years I have been married to husband (R), this sis (I'll call her M.) has never once gone into any rage that I know of. However; she has been in therapy for years due to being the adult child of a very abusive alcoholic father (they all had to live through it). She and I are like real sisters; not in-laws. The caregiver sis (call her D.) has always been a little cool toward me, and I have never really felt comfortable around her because of it.
Now, R. and I go to D.s house every other week and stay a few nights so she can go out with her husband, run errands, stay in motel, or even go on a trip. She and I have therefore been placed in a situation where caring for Mom is a common goal. If D decides to stay while we're there, I help at every opportunity with dressing mom, cleaning house etc. This has opened up lines of communication between us. She is a bit warmer toward me now, and I don't feel so uncomfortable anymore.
During a recent hosp. stay for one of mom's infections, it was M's turn to stay the night. M. spoke with Dr. and told him she suspected D of mis-handling Mom's funds and meds, and of exaggerating Mom's condition. M is a 20+ year veteran Invistigator with human resources and the like.
That's why it's so strange that she seems to have has lost her ability to reason in this matter; she's been trained all her adult life to see logic and to focus on facts. Anywho, because of her cop-nature, the dr found her believable enough to seriously doubt Mom's safety; and D had to use her power of attorney to override the Dr's order to place mom in a home! She told him M had lied and was not even privy to all facts as she rarely visits mom. Then she took Mom back home (where she belongs).
I reached out to M and suggested that she consider forgiving D for the years of hurts and wipe the slate clean. I said, ". . . You don't have to be buddies, but putting the past behind; at least for now, would allow you to have some very precious moments with mom. Fight later, or wash your hands, if that's what you need to do. At least put the anger on hold for the next few weeks/months." THOSE words are what sent her into a rage that lasted over an hour on the phone where she cursed my husband, R viciously and accused him of going over to the 'enemy's side'. It was bazaar to say the least.
I am praying for healing between the sisters and for grace and strength for husband. I pray that mom suffer as little as possible and that this not last longer than it has to. In the meantime, I extend what I hope is perceived as unconditional love to everyone involved, the best ways I can.
Thank you for reading my posts. Thank you for wisdom. God bless.
Singpeace
We have the very same problem, one sister is always angry or resentful towards someone in the family. A sister that dosen't seem to be happy with any arrangement or anything the rest of us do for our mother.
It seems, none of us can make her happy; some in the family, have washed their hands of her bitterness and choose not to be around her. I think most of her anger stems from past hurts; she's a very unhappy individual and I beleive can't even find peace with herself.
With many prayers, I try to do what's right and what I feel God wants me to do. I was appointed DPOA by our mother years ago and I feel blessed that she trusted me to act on her behalf. I'm not responsible for my families happiness only mine and I'm learning, when the storm hits and the seas get rough; I pull up anchor and ride the tide and do what's best for me!
God bless you and good luck with what's ahead.
Good luck
I am the sis-n-law and love my in-laws. One sis is caregiver and other is in a fit of rage most of the time from past hurts.
Both are intelligent, educated, good-hearted souls. Both are logical-minded.
How can help, or is there any hope that the angry sis would understand this is not about her and she is losing a precious opportunity as the window is closing?
My sister thinks I did this behind her back so that I could have control over mom and keep money for myself! My name has been on all of mom's accounts for quite a while so that I can help her pay her bills. I monitor her bank account have found instances where my brother and sister have taken advantage of mom and has checks made out to them! I have never asked for or received any money from mom.
My sister must think that having POA is a title of glory and has no idea of the number of hours I put into managing mom's bills, care at the assisted living facility, balancing and transferring money among her accounts to pay the bills, etc!!! I would willingly turn over the POA to my sister but it would be a disaster since she doesn't own or know anything about computers and can't even manage her own checking account!!
She has called me up, cursing at me, "You're nothing but a fu....bitch!" Also, she has given me minimal help in cleaning out mom's house in preparation of selling it.
When mom is gone, I will have no further contact with her, and possibly my brother, also.
Remember the slogan "You can pick your friends but not your family." How true!!!
I know that DPOA and healthcare proxy are challenging duties for anyone, and you will be blessed for doing so much against so much opposition.
If you continue to have too many problems, try involving an OMSBUDSMAN and a family meeting to decide what needs to be done.
Being 300 miles away is going to make everything even tougher, and my heart goes out to you.
God Bless
Here's something that is sure tempting to do with some people in my own family. When I'm conducting my mother's financial affairs as her durable POA, it is as if she were saying it or doing it. So, other family members just as well get use to you being your mom's spokesperson and keep her bills paid, etc. Nothing personal, just business since my mother appointed me to look after her business. If I said all of that, I probably would only escalate the situation.
I wish you well. Situations like yours make me feel real good abot being an only child.
When I was DoA for my Dad, I avoided a brother at all costs and I have very little to do with him now. He would not be reasonable and only wanted money and belongings; he had no concern for my dads feelings or dads emotional well being. This tactic worked on him, he quit complaining around me when he realized I would not jump on his cause or give him any money. Once mom's gone, I'll never see him again. I am much happier for it; it's a huge relief to realize I can decide NOT to have that type of person in my world.
Good luck to you