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Do not do it! If he does this to try to preserve resources he will be penalized by Medicaid a sum equal to what the value of the property has. Is his concern the payment of the hospital bill? Does he have insurance? Does he have POA in place?
So has dad's behavior always been like this or is this new? It sounds like dad has dementia as they all seem to get the "somebody is stealing" rant. Your lucky in that it's "they" and not "you" but it will only get worse and more & more over petty things. Has dad been seen by a geronotologist? If not, really do what you can set him up with an appointment and go with him to it - knowing where he is on the dementia scale and what type of dementia he has will make a big difference in what the next steps need to be. As others have said, taking your elder to see a gerontologist is like taking your kid to see a pediatrician. The needs for the older set are different and specialized. Most family doc's and internists just don't have the approach & training needed for elder health care.
Then go see an elder law attorney. Sometimes it's best if the son or daughter goes for the first visit with dad's info and discuss with legal what dad's personality is and what options are best. Then the second visit go with dad. Think about what would work best for you all. Really a good elder law attorney can be a god-send in they have seen everything and know what approach works best if dad has to apply for Medicaid in your state. As Gladimhere said, do NOT transfer anything into your name. Speak with the attorney first.
Not a good idea. Are there specific bills that he has now? Or is he concerned about planning for the future? There are specific steps you and he can take to plan for increasing hospital bills and health insurance bills. Call your local Area Agency on Aging and talk to an elder law attorney. And do research here and online, too. Some states have laws protecting adult children from their parents' debts but others do not. This is not something to just play around with. Take these concerns seriously and protect yourself.
What is the source of his concern? Is he now hospitalized and worried about the medical bills? Does he have serious medical issues that he feels might keep him in a hospital for care which he cannot pay? Does he have Medicare and a supplemental policy?
If he is thinking that he can reduce his assets for Medicaid qualification, it won't work because Medicaid has a look-back period during which asset transfers are examined. Medicaid does not look kindly on deliberate asset transfers as part of a spend-down if they fall within the look-back period.
If he does this, you will have huge problems with the IRS, because they would consider it your income and therefore taxable. There are better ways to protect his estate with the help of an attorney.
See an elder attorney, hiding assets is not a good idea and can result in issues an noted by posters. Additionally, would you want your dad driving a car you own, you will be liable as the owner for any damage.
Is he afraid that the cars will be seized as assets, or is he afraid that "they" will take the cars away because he's not considered able to drive anymore? Two very different questions, but it sounds like dementia, not just age related decline has come knocking on the door. In any event, Igloo offers great advice!
I have a different take on this as I just "bought" my parents sweet ride last week. Sunny does not say her Dad has dementia, maybe he is just realizing he wont drive anymore but dosen't want to get "rid" of his car. My parents moved in with us, they no longer want to drive (Can't in Dad's case). But they like their car to go places in. so I can now keep the car and drive them in it. Really unless Dads cars are worth a LOT.. how much is gonna be gotten in the look back (if it;s even needed?) We also gifted a truck to my one cousin. Check on your DMV website, or call AAA if you are a member. Some gifts are allowable (parent to child or Aunt/Uncle to Niece/Nephew) I did not know this until I checked.
You could conceviably buy them from dad as long as it was close enough to fair market value, but legal advice first sounds like a good idea. But it sounds like at a minimum Dad does not understand about look-back and hiding assets and how that works, or that hospitals would not typically take anyones property directly...but then how many of us understood anything about that before long-term care issues arose in our lives??
Pamz- about your "sweet ride" happiness…. hopefully your folks never have to apply for Medicaid but if they do the car & truck they gifted can show up as a transfer penalty for Medicaid if they were gifted within the 5 year look-back period required by the feds for the states to participate in Medicaid.
Whether your state DMV allows for a vehicle to be gifted without taxation is NOT the issue either. Medicaid application specifically asks for the applicant to put down any transfer, gifting or sale of real property (homes, land, cars). Now as all real property is recorded by the local tax assessor and then dovetailed into the state database, there will be a match-up as to vehicle change in ownership. It is a simple easy set of keystrokes by Medicaid to find out about the vehicles and send out a transfer penalty inquiry letter to the Medicaid applicant.
The transfer penalty is a big issue because almost always the applicant is already moved & at a NH as they now need that level of care. The transfer penalty seem to come somewhere within the 3 - 5 month of the application process as it just takes anywhere from 2 - 10 months for Medicaid to process & vett an application. The family get the transfer penally inquiry letter and the NH gets it also. NH costs anywhere from 5K to 15K a month, and if there is a transfer penalty in place, then someone in the family will have to private pay for their parent stay in the NH. Medicaid will not pay a penny of their care until the penalty period is over or the penalty paid or the penalty removed - this is a total panic situation for family. The NH has no choice but to bill family for the care provided and will turn the bill over to collections as it likely will be signifiant enough to be worthwhile to do. It i hard to fight a real property penalty as the tax assessor value is set and given - although it can be done. I had one to deal with for a car that my mom gave to worthless nephew just at the edge of the 5 year look-back, I was able to get the value reduced as there was a documented history of payment for repairs on the car to reduce it's value and a letter from the mechanic / dealership as to damage to reduce value too. But if I did not have a set of legit paperwork to back the claim, there would have been a transfer penalty incurred by Medicaid.
5 year look back is summer of 2020 and that is a long, long time to keep documents and for one's health situation to change…...
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
too easy..
Then go see an elder law attorney. Sometimes it's best if the son or daughter goes for the first visit with dad's info and discuss with legal what dad's personality is and what options are best. Then the second visit go with dad. Think about what would work best for you all. Really a good elder law attorney can be a god-send in they have seen everything and know what approach works best if dad has to apply for Medicaid in your state. As Gladimhere said, do NOT transfer anything into your name. Speak with the attorney first.
If he is thinking that he can reduce his assets for Medicaid qualification, it won't work because Medicaid has a look-back period during which asset transfers are examined. Medicaid does not look kindly on deliberate asset transfers as part of a spend-down if they fall within the look-back period.
Additionally, would you want your dad driving a car you own, you will be liable as the owner for any damage.
Whether your state DMV allows for a vehicle to be gifted without taxation is NOT the issue either. Medicaid application specifically asks for the applicant to put down any transfer, gifting or sale of real property (homes, land, cars). Now as all real property is recorded by the local tax assessor and then dovetailed into the state database, there will be a match-up as to vehicle change in ownership. It is a simple easy set of keystrokes by Medicaid to find out about the vehicles and send out a transfer penalty inquiry letter to the Medicaid applicant.
The transfer penalty is a big issue because almost always the applicant is already moved & at a NH as they now need that level of care. The transfer penalty seem to come somewhere within the 3 - 5 month of the application process as it just takes anywhere from 2 - 10 months for Medicaid to process & vett an application. The family get the transfer penally inquiry letter and the NH gets it also. NH costs anywhere from 5K to 15K a month, and if there is a transfer penalty in place, then someone in the family will have to private pay for their parent stay in the NH. Medicaid will not pay a penny of their care until the penalty period is over or the penalty paid or the penalty removed - this is a total panic situation for family. The NH has no choice but to bill family for the care provided and will turn the bill over to collections as it likely will be signifiant enough to be worthwhile to do. It i hard to fight a real property penalty as the tax assessor value is set and given - although it can be done. I had one to deal with for a car that my mom gave to worthless nephew just at the edge of the 5 year look-back, I was able to get the value reduced as there was a documented history of payment for repairs on the car to reduce it's value and a letter from the mechanic / dealership as to damage to reduce value too. But if I did not have a set of legit paperwork to back the claim, there would have been a transfer penalty incurred by Medicaid.
5 year look back is summer of 2020 and that is a long, long time to keep documents and for one's health situation to change…...