Anybody have any suggestions for elderly parent that no nursing facility will take when we can't take her home from the hospital?

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Anybody have any suggestions for elderly parent that no nursing facility will take when we can't take her home from the hospital?

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So read some questions and answers from way back in 2010 and 2017 where people spoke about similar situations. My mother had a serious stroke in September and got awful care at the hospital. She's had infection after infection and other issues that they didn't treat properly and because we chose for faith reasons and her medical history reasons to not get her a covid vaccine hospital started telling me that no nursing facility would take her. She has been in the hospital for 4 months and now they're telling me I have like a week to get her out of the hospital and if no nursing home or skilled nursing facility will take her, I will have to take her home. She has a feeding tube, is paralyzed on one side and our home is not conducive or large enough to have nurses being there 24/7. Small kitchen and living room that we'd need to put my mother in. Small bedrooms are on second floor, with very narrow staircase. Rooms either don't have furniture now or it's old and broken down, and my mother started to hoard mail and some other things. I'm in the process of trying to clean stuff out, but I have to do that in the middle of doing 10 other things every day plus work, so it is a slow go. We'd need to move furniture, get rid of furniture and purchase hospital bed and other equipment. Plus, my brother is on disability for a heart and back condition and recently had knee surgery and I still have to work and don't actually live in my mother's house. Anybody know of resources in Massachusetts or New England area that I can check out. Places that might be willing to take her at least temporarily until we can get the house settled. Lawyers that will fight for our rights to have a place for my mother. I'm willing to take her out of state if possible so we can get her some more medical care and rehab before bringing her home. That is what she needs. She needs to get off feeding tube. New Hampshire even or any place at this point.

The treatment of my elderly mother and how the administration and some hospital staff has treated me is making me sick. I don't eat well because I get so upset after talking to them and I now often sleep only 2 to 3 hours a night because of how upset I still am at bedtime, and it sometimes only comes from sheer exhaustion.

Hospital Discharge Senior Health Skilled Nursing Facility

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There are more fetal stem cells involved in developing your mother's other meds than were ever involved in developing the Covid vaccine.

Choices have consequences, and if a group living environment like a nursing home requires vaccinations, so be it. Others are not required to be sacrificed because of your decisions.

You have to take responsibility for your choices, so home she goes, I guess.

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Amen. This OP sounds like soooo many ignorant others who have gone full hog on medicine and hospitals for decades but now, all of a sudden, are having an existential crisis because stem cells were involved in making the vaccine.

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It's more complicated and thus less incentive for a NH to admit someone who won't get vaccinated. It's more complicated to treat them if they do end up in the hospital. I get faith and all that, but why invite all these complications? Do a pfizer/moderna if you're worried about abortion, or the J&J if you're worried about gene technology (it isn't but still).

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So many uninformed & no help.

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My cousin was 48 when he died this past Monday. He had stage 4 brain cancer and was having seizures constantly, wasted away to nothing. No SNF or hospice house would take him in, on his death bed, b/c he was unvaccinated. Because there was No. Other. Choice., an ambulance took him to a vaccination site & he was jabbed twice after being tested and turned up negative. He was finally, finally, finally admitted into the SNF b/c he had done things 'their way'. And 3 days later, tested positive for Covid, so his 76 y/o mother could not even go say goodbye to her son b/c she has advanced Parkinson's Disease and didn't want to risk getting sick.

The world right now is unrecognizable for all of us. Your mother either plays the game THEIR way or you take her home. End of story. If a man on his literal deathbed, seizing in pain was refused admittance to a SNF due to not being jabbed, that pretty much says it all. And the icing on the cake is that he tested positive AFTER being admitted. There's no winning here.

Best of luck

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That is truly truly awful 😥

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Sorry, if getting her vaccinated means getting her in a NH then that is what needs to be done. You can't expect the Hospital to keep her indefinitely. For one thing, Medicare will not allow it. 24/7 care is expensive and privately paid. Medicaid may not pay 24/7. Then you have will the aides show up or not.

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I am sorry about your Mother's stroke.

Has there been any recovery seen in her paraysis over these 4 months? Is there still hope of recovery from the stroke? Have you had care meeting discussions on her progress?

Personally, as my Mother has always expressed not wanting burdensome treatments, I would have thought hard about recovery chance & quality of life. If a major stroke that would not improve ie a feeding tube vs comfort care measures/ hospice. Well, I'd choose as she would want.

This may sound shocking, but if you are looking at end of life, there may be hospice accommodation options.

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What does your mother think about having her Covid vaccinations? I mean what does she think, not what does the family think.

What's the basis for your being held responsible for her care - are you her MPOA, guardian, anything like that?

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If your mom wants to be admitted as a resident into any facility that uses Medicare or Medicaid $ to run their facility, the facility has the right and requirement that the resident is vaccinated for Covid and gets their booster when it comes due. Same is true for an hospice program that is paid by Medicare. This determination was just upheld by the Supreme Court earlier this month.

Your choices are stark:
- get her vaxxed
- find a private pay only facility that does not do any participation in any Medicare or Medicaid programs. This will be very hard to do as something as routine as an annual flu shot or the pneumonia shot that facilities require of residents is covered by & paid for by Medicare.
- The medical directors at private pay NH will be participating in Medicare so none will be able to get paid to ever see her as she is not vaxxed. She would need to find an outside MD somewhere who does not participate in Medicare. Not ever likely….
- Should you actually find a private pay only place, I’ll guess 20K-25k a month with 3 months up front. & cash up front non refundable paid.
- take her home and you & your family do all the caregiving for her. Being unvaxxed means any In-Home health care companies will find it difficult to do any services for her as they have other clients that are having their care in some way underwritten by Medicare or Medicaid. The IHHS companies right now have a huge waiting list. If they are faced with going to a unvaccinated household or one that is fully vaccinated, vaccinated wins.

Also should this come to an impasse with the hospital and you do not pick her up, the discharge planner can contact APS and ask APS to intervene and request an emergency ward of the state placement for your mom. Happens all the time and that guardian is now in charge of all decisions regarding her. Yes, you can challenge it but you’ll need an attorney for the hearing likely set for months from now and you would have to show why decisions made as her POA or decisions she made while you were her POA were done in best interest…. the Supreme Court decision notwithstanding. Lol.

Just too bad for your mom but that’s entirely on her and her decisions. She could get jabbed tomorrow & get beyond this, get admitted into a facility w/24/7 skilled nursing care oversight; you do realize this, don’t you? Personally I find this a ridiculous hill to take a stand on; no sympathy.

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Exactly. It’s ridiculous!

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Why not get her poked with the J&J one time done deal? The sad part she my guess it is not a matter of if, more so when someone gets COVID in a SNF. So better off getting the poked so they have a better chance at survival.

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Cdiff is a bigger killer in nursing homes. Where's the vaccine for that?

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Faith reasons? Do you think God will be pleased you allowed your mother to not get the treatment she needed and even suffer, so you could feel like a good Christian? Doesn't sound much like honoring thy mother to me.

Consider that God works through people. I don't have what it takes to become a doctor, but many people do. God gave them the brains and skills to help heal people, or at least keep them comfortable as they leave this world. THAT is the work of God, and it's ridiculous to shun that and then ask God why your mother is still suffering. He provided the help to you, and you've decided you know God's will better than He does. You might as well stop all medical treatment if you don't trust it. It’s not as if everything else is safe but the vaccine isn’t.

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God has nothing to do with mefical breakthroughs it is only recently in modrrn times that people have access to treatments against disease and illness. Think about the nightmares the mentally ill suffered through for thusands of years and even modern treatments are not a panacea for many if they don't take their medications. God doesn't care if yoy live or die. After all god created disease as a way to cull the population.

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look in webster

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‘Faith reasons’ are what stop ‘Christian Scientist’ parents from getting medical treatment for dying children. I’ve read nearly all the Bible, Old and New Testaments, and I can’t remember anything about vaccination. If you want to follow the Bible’s suggestions, start with Leviticus Chapter 13 on how to treat leprosy. Then give thanks to God for modern medicine.

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What did you think of Leviticus? It's interesting reading.

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Forced vaccination is a disgrace. Especially since the vaccination does not guarantee you won't get covid. Just heard the news just because you are vaccinated and noisted does not mean you wont get a breakthrough case of covid.

For all those displaying disgusting unsympathetic comments regarding someone making a decision about what they want to inject into their own bodies remember what comes around goes around. When you are on your 12th or 26th booster shot and still testing yourself for covid daily

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Point people are making is if someone wishes to have someone else be responsible for payment then they have to play by the rules of the payer end of story. That is not unsympathetic it is fact.

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My mother wanted the first two vaccines....but was hesitant on the third. It was an easier decision being she rarely left her home.

Fast forward .... she fell broke a hip, came home, surgical site infected, fell three times, ER twice, admitted and had another surgery to clean out the site and replace the ball, another stint in rehab with IV antibiotics, and two trips to the ER for a dislocated hip. All in six weeks.....

They asked me if she should get a booster. Honestly, at 85 with all of that other going on as well as all of her other health problems....she's getting the booster. She has bigger fish to fry right now. She needs a good placement first and foremost.

(for the record...I am unvaccinated)

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I am sorry you are dealing with a difficult situation. Without being vaccinated, your mother has little chance of rehabilitation in a residential setting anywhere in Massachusetts or the other New England states. Perhaps you could have her stay temporarily in a hotel and arrange nursing assistance and rehabilitation in her hotel room if that is even possible. A lot of agencies are reluctant to take on unvaccinated clients. I wish you luck with your dilemma.

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Funny states like NY are now refusing unvaxxed people into their nursing homes but during the. Height of the pandemic Cuomo was sending patients sick with covid to nursing homes to infect and kill residents that were not sick. And when vaccines were introduced in nursing homes they had more cases of covid than when none of the residents were not vaccinated.

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OP, seriously, you do not want this boiling down to either you do everything or the hospital decides by itself that your mother is an unsafe discharge.

Perhaps regions such as the Deep South might be more hospitable than New England to taking on the unvaccinated, but it's a drastic move to uproot everyone just to move in the hope of that.

You could argue that measles vaccinations are unfair given that before them only 400-500 children a year died, but the state of California still won't let your kid go to private or public school without one. For most, this is too steep a hill to die on, and for your mother, it could be steeper yet.

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If my grandmother were alive, she would be horrified at these attitudes. She told me stories where mothers lost all their children to disease such as diphtheria - she would not understand the stupidity of refusing lifesaving vaccines.

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Have you checked into board and care homes?

They usually have very different requirements then large facilities. My dad refused a flu or pneumonia shot and it wasn't a problem.

He, unfortunately, had to have surgery in 12/20 and contracted covid in the hospital and died.

Just an FYI for everyone, his cause of death wasn't listed as covid. Maybe because he obviously caught it from staff. I don't know and it doesn't matter, when it is our time to go, we go.

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Her Mom has a feeding tube. Don't think a board and care will do skilled nursing like this.

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Solution would be to get her vaccinated. I do not believe that there is any "faith reason" as a Christian to avoid this. The connection between use of fetal cells in vaccine development and the vaccines currently in use is too tangential to be morally objectionable. Pope Francis has actually said that. And further suggested that refusal to get vaccination (absent genuine Medical objection) is immoral because it ignores the safety of others. I should hope that nursing homes have rules about potential residents. After all, you have the right to refuse BUT that does NOT obligate others to accommodate your choices. Consequences - that is the result of the choices you make. Others have rights too! It is absurd to talk about your "rights" and then deny that others have rights too! This whole business is so political - not science based. I mean do you think that 800,00+ dead people are just screen extras snoozing in body bags?

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You are wrong. States are required to accept religious and medical waivers. This is a violation if the American disabilty act if your state has waivers against vaccination and then it is not honored. Same goes for employees. This is how the law works. We do not live in a tyrannical dictatorship.

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Loving daughter here is a lawyer and article about the fact that these nursing homes cannot force residents to get vaccinated. They are in NJ.

https://www.hnwlaw.com/2020/12/01/can-a-nursing-home-assisted-living-resident-refuse-the-covid-vaccine/

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They can't require an existing resident to get vaccinated, but that's not what's going on here.

That's different than requiring a vaccine before being admitted.

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Also have you actually called any skilled nursing facilities? I checked the websites of a few in MA and none have anything about new admits requiring a vaccine. Just wondering if you are taking the word of the hospital or if you have called some places.

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I don't believe the hospital can discharge your mother since she requires a feeding tube. Sounds like an unsafa discharge home if there was one. Tell me your zip code and mile radius that would be acceptable and i will personally do a google search and call some places for you to see what they say about admitting an unvaxxed person.

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I believe they may be able to apply for guardianship and move the patient. And does the family really want to pay privately once Medicare ceases to pay? There are financial issues and I cannot imagine why you are so against vaccination - if there is a shot not involving fetal cells, then where is the moral objection?

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Pope Francis says getting a COVID vaccine is a moral obligation and an act of love. “Love for oneself, love for our families and friends, and love for all peoples." The Pope himself is vaccinated with Pfizer.

See the Pope say so on the Vatican's own news page:

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2021-08/pope-francis-appeal-covid-19-vaccines-act-of-love.html

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He also hides pedo priests so take what he says with a grain of salt.

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Adding they also made the no vaccine decision based on moms medical history not just religious objection.

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Making a claim that it's for medical reasons without a doctor's order doesn't fly either.

Either way, they have a right to choose who they accept. Being unvaxxed is not a protected class.

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This is for MJ yes you are right California does not have religious exemptions for vaccines but poster lives in MA and they do.

This link is for schools but since she was referring to ca schools I a m posting that here for her.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health/school-immunization-exemption-state-laws.aspx

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The way I'm reading this, it suggests that Massachusetts mandates allow for nursing/LTHC facilites to require their residents get vax'd. "Nursing homes and rest homes can: Choose to vaccinate their staff and residents."
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/covid-19-vaccinations-for-nursing-homes-rest-homes-and-assisted-living-residences

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You are not legally responsible for her and simply tell them she cannot live with you. It is THEIR problem to find her a place. I know this because a hospital tried to force us to take my mother -in- law and my husband said no. They try to make you feel guilty but stick to your guns and make them find a placement if they want her bed. Remember, even though you love her, don’t let them guilt you because LEGALLY you don’t have to take her.

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I am not going to approach the vax/no vax discussion -
but, know that any facility can set forth their requirements and rules for accepting new patients.
But, given that the situation is such that you are unable to bring your parent home, stand firm, be firm with the hospital and their social workers - you are unable to care for your parent in your home. End of discussion. They will try to reason with you, logic with you, make you feel guilty- don't fall for it. The facility the hospital may find may not be the highest quality, but, at least it could give you some time to research more options.

You could do a hotel with a 24/7 nurse, but that will become very expensive. And with a feeding tube in, don't think a hotel will be willing to have an ambulance pull up and bring a 'guest' in on a stretcher...they might decline the liability.

You might want to lay out your plan A, B, C and D, because with your parent not vaccinated, it will be very difficult finding a facility willing to take her. So, be ready to figure that one out.

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I completely agree with you, except I think in OP's case, she also wants control. She wants to dictate where and how her mother is taken care of =, and under what conditions. She can't have everything she wants. If she refuses to take her home, the state will pursue guardianship and mom will be vaxxed and taken care of properly. OP apparantly doesn't desire this.

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The mother is elderly, is recovering from a serious stroke, has a feeding tube and still requires extensive 24/7 care and rehab support four months on from first admission.

But as far as I can gather there is nothing to say that she is unable to give or withhold consent to treatment. If so, vaccination is her decision. It would be nice to hear that she is being assisted with making it.

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I live in mass. and there are two NH across street from me they both take unvaccinated clients.

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I called a place just now and the nurse said she didn't think they had to be vaccinated to be admitted but to double check monday with admissions. None of the websites i checked for skilled nursing listed mandatory vaccination for admittance either. If this was the case surely that would be on their website.

I believe you that vaccination is not mandatory at 2 places you live near. So with that being said is the hospital lying to this woman and her family and if they are what are the implications about why medical staff would lie to someone whose mother is very sick about something like this.

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In my experience, the discharge planners at the hospital will give you a list of places with available beds, but it's the family's job to visit them, ascertain policies and set up financials.

Have you visited any nursing homes?

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To BarbBrooklyn: I do not think you understand the situation. The nursing homes do not want the patient because she is not vaccinated and refuses to be vaccinated. Therefore, it is not like a situation to pick a NH that will accept the patient.

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If you do not have legal conservatorship/guardianship over your mother, you are not responsible for her and do not have to take her home. You can make her a ward of the state by refusing to.
Secondly, who can blame a care facility who will not admit a new patient who refuses to be vaccinated? Why should any nursing home or care facility put all of their residents and staff at risk to humor someone who refuses to be vaccinated for Covid?
So really the only choices are get your mother vaccinated so she can be placed in a decent care facility. Or take her home and pray for the best.
Get your mother vaccinated. I'm sure God won't hold it against either one of you if it means your mother will get some decent care.

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You say that an unvaccinated person would put all the staff and residents at risk. How exactly when the vaccinated are also getting and spreading covid. Seems like the mother would be at risk being unvaccinated since everyone is telling us that being vaccinated keeps you from getting a severe case if covid and needing to go to the hosspiral.

So please explain to me how the vaccinated staff and residents in a nursing home are in danger from someone who is not vaccinated.

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Loving Daughter,

Check out St. Antoine Hospice
They are wonderful. My grandmother lived there for many years and my dad
passed (an only child) before her. They (the staff, nurses) are fabulous.

They have short-term, long-term, assisted living, nursing home care, hospice, respite for the family and they do unnecessary trips to the hospital. A lot of services right on the premises. I, too, am a loving daughter. Mom is at home been in and out of the hospital 3 times over 18 months--visited nurses, moved to a first floor unit. Has Lewy Body Dementia. As I write this Mom is asleep in "our" room in a hospital bed. At 11AM after I write this I work online.

St. Antoine is a Villa and a nursing home. My grandmother lived in the original building and in her 90's they opened beautiful new wing. She died there, I was and they let her die in Peace where she lived for 20 years.

There are (2) phone numbers you can check out their website.
Telephone: (401) 767-3500

Also if you dad was a veteran contact the Veteran's for Aid & Attendance.
FlexJobs.com is fabulous for remote work.

God Bless You. I will pray the rosary for you.

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Anybody have any suggestions for elderly parent that no nursing facility will take when we can't take her home from the hospital?

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