Just a quick question, I will post all the other details when I get a free moment. But I have to ask this one now... Social worker finally got back to me this morning. Dad qualifies for a few small things which may help, does not qualify for a number of others (too much social security $) but that's not the main thing here. While she visited, she noticed that my house needs a lot of repairs. When she got Dad a glass from the dishwasher, the dishwasher fell out of it's housing (again) - the countertop it attaches to is rotten underneath. I explained to her that most of my disposable income goes to provide Dad with transportation to all his appointments, extra heat and electricity, adult diapers, bed linen, you name it... whatever he doesn't pay for, I do. Well, long story short - she wants permission to call my siblings to find out why they aren't helping to support Dad? She understands that my older brother hasn't got the resources, but she said that people in my brother's income bracket have no excuse. She claims that often a call from someone like her will make them realize they need to step up... she said it would not be unreasonable for him to provide Dad with $1000-$1500 a WEEK (!). I am still ROTFL... I told her that if she got him to provide $100 -$150 A YEAR, she deserves an award. She acted like she didn't believe me. Anyway, I am tempted to let her try. I mean, at least my brother would understand that it really is serious... but I still think it is a waste of time. Any thoughts? Do you see any possible downside? I mean, beside my brother dying of laughter?
And, as caregivers, our toes can be stepped on, and sometimes, others can be control freaks and think that they can suck blood from a stone.
But in the case of your dad and in the cases of any of our parents, we might/might already be doing some traditional social worker duties - such as taking the perspective of what's best for our loved one...security-wise and basic-need wise.
We might know what's best to keep him or her secure, fed, medically-sound, clean, etc., but I personally think a second opinion wouldn't hurt, and making your brother aware is needed.
If your brother reacts negatively to this news, that's on him.
The risk is that your brother doesn't even know that his help is needed.
You never know what the outcome of that will be (I wouldn't necessarily keep hope alive to receive a ridiculously high weekly amount of $1,500), but it's a first step. At least he would know.
1. Expenses incurred to care for a close relative are tax-deductible.
2. Check your state's financial fiduciary laws. In my state, PA, children have a financial obligation to provide for parents who have few resources.
3. Was your Dad a veteran during wartime? He may be eligible for Aid and Attendance from the Govt.
Good luck!
From my point of view, in hindsight, having seen my brother operate over the years, I don't doubt he could have talked them into doing just about anything. He obviously talked my Mom into signing the Advanced Directives without consulting anyone else in the family. That is just one more reason I don't trust him. Aside from the fact that he lied to my face many times when I still talked to him.
As far as the lawyer goes, I will look into that in the future. First, I need to pay for the Elder lawyer for dad.
As far as theft - how long do you have? Garden tools, power saws, power drills, my hair formula (yes), the silver candleholders my grandmother left me, my mother's crystal hairpin which she left me (and yes, I know he took it because his wife wore it to our house. He said, "Well, YOU never wear it! Ha! Ha!") and yes, he promised to return it, and yes, he lied.
Regarding wills - are you an attorney? My brother has already contested part of another inheritance in 2004. He has a history of producing documents - as if by magic - to adapt your phrase, out of thin air. Such as the Advanced Directive that he filed on my mom. No one had ever seen it, and he never mentioned it. One day he and his wife just showed up at the hospital with it. Would that give you concern? I guess I'm strange, because it sure did with me.
Why would my parents tell their son "NO" when he asked them to support his dreams, and promised to look after them in return? Is that how you grew up? As I said, it was not how I did. In retrospect, should they have made up a contract? Of course. But I understand why they didn't feel the need at the time.
We were all raised to believe that caring for your family came first. My brother is an amputee. He cared for mom for almost 16 years. In a few months, I will have cared for Dad for almost 20 years. That is how were raised. That is who we were as a family. My brother is the outlier. He is the one who has never kept his word to anyone in the family, and has laughed, or gotten angry whenever he was confronted on it.
I can only assume you've never dealt with it, because after you've been lied to, let down, and laughed at, and stolen from often enough when you ask for help, you stop asking. It just hurts too much to remember that you were kids together, and this is how he is now. I don't have the words to explain this to you. I am trying, but it is impossible to convey the feeling of disappointment.
As regards to my brother's problem with Dad? The same one that he had with Mom. He no longer needed them. They no longer had anything worth hanging around to get. And that is another reason I don't want him around - I still do have things he would want.
I have this weird theory, it's very strange. I think you can best judge a what a person's intentions were by examining the results of their actions. In my brother's case, I see him with their money, and my parents left to spend their last years in near-poverty, and my brother and myself dealing with the mess for years.
No, I don't think that's accidental.
It sounds as though it's high time you brought dad's lawyer into this situation to see what relief there is for you AND dad from your predatory brother.
It is not that difficult to make your will hard to contest. You leave your scapegrace brother a peppercorn legacy and spell out in the terms why you are excluding him from further benefits. His stealing is a different issue. What has he stolen from you?
What do you think your brother's problem with your father is? I mean, it's simple enough to attribute this whole situation to your brother being Evil and your parents Abused; but it seems improbable. What happened? Any ideas at all?
Social workers are bound by professional codes of conduct. It is no part of their remit to tell their clients' children how to behave.
He asked them for money - six figures of it - in order to open a business. This was a good portion of my parents savings. They told him that it was for their retirement. He told them that he would look after them in their retirement. Now, I agree with you, they SHOULD have written up a contract. But you know what? Prior to my brother doing this, a contract never would have been NEEDED in our family. We were never like that as a family.
And, yes, I DO believe my parents. First, they did have records of what they gave him at the time, because it was so much. And second, he later broke promises that he made to my older brother and myself to help out with the parents.
And yes, I am concerned about my will. Not about him having "magic powers" - as you put it, but that if I am gone he will contest my willand leave my remaining family members penniless. Yes, I DO worry about that. I worry about that all the time, really. And yes, I worry about him being anywhere near my home, because as I stated earlier, he steals. From your tone, I can only assume your experience with such persons is limited?
And yes, there was a time when we were frank with my brother. Let me tell you about the last time. When my brother, who was living with my mother, was in the hospital for an amputation, I was helping to clean up mom's house because she couldn't care for herself, I told my younger brother that I could not stay there indefinitely because someone needed to stay with Dad, too. You know what his answer was? "YOUR PROBLEM, not interested."
If I recall, you were the one who suggested that a call from a SW asking him to contribute to his father's support might be construed as "bullying," were you not? I have to ask - isn't frankness a virtue in that instance as well, regardless of the SW's diplomatic skill? Or is frankness a situational virtue? Just curious...
There seem to be some strange and/or unknown factors at play, here.
Your brother didn't hold a gun to your parents' heads. They gave him that money. If there was an 'understanding' that it was conditional on his caring for them in their latter years, well, what was that understanding? And was it understood by all parties? Because apparently not; and you don't have to have been born and bred on Wall Street to know that a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it isn't written on, to paraphrase Sam Goldwyn.
Similarly, you don't want your brother around because you suspect that he's after a legacy? Well for heaven's sake man! - If you don't want to name him in your will, don't name him in your will! He can't force you to do it by his mere presence, you know. He doesn't have magic powers.
Reading through, I just wonder if there is in your family in general perhaps a lack of frankness and plain speaking. When your brother drops these hints about invitations, is that not your opportunity to deliver home truths: you, brother, took this amount from mother and father in such and such a year and their understanding was that you would reciprocate when they were in need, so what about it? Provide dates and numbers, make specific claims for specific amounts.
I too come from a family where "beastly money, darling" is not something one talks about. Also one where "a good chap doesn't tell a good chap what a good chap ought to know." Now this is all very fine and morally upstanding and noblesse oblige and all that; but you know what? As a basis for sound domestic management and healthy relationships it utterly sucks. Home truths, plain speaking, frankness and practicality. These need to be your and your father's watchwords. Take brother by the ear and tell him what's what.
The issue, as I see it, is that he got a lot of money from the family, and he promised to help. But he never did.
As I said, I was surprised to see that the consensus seemed to be that he has no moral obligation to help his Dad. That has just confirmed me in the belief that it is probably better to attack the issue from a legal standpoint, than hoping the SW can appeal to his non-existent sense of morality.
If the prevailing mood in society is that children should not be obligated to support their parents, it is a pretty easy stretch for him to believe that despite the money he took, and the agreement he made, he should not be expected to either. At least that is what I have gleaned from reading all of the comments.
I cannot imagine 12K per month for NH expenses. I have been screaming at Dad for spending 1/3 of that total - including all of his medical bills! When the SW suggested she would ask my brother for $1000-$1500 a week, I almost fell off my chair. It shows how out of touch I am. Obviously I have been doing eldercare on the cheap.
The legal option has been under consideration for a while. A friend's mother did it, and the lawyer got her daughter to send monthly support rather than be dragged through court with the public viewing her elderly, destitute mom begging for help. I really didn't want to go down that route. I expect Dad, for all his fury at him, won't want to either. Just like he does not want to reapply for medicaid.
But, under the circumstances I am going to tell Dad he either needs to go after him for support, and reapply for medicaid, or he needs to accept that section 8 apartment and then reapply for assistance to live on his own.
I have been debating whether to go ahead and let the SW try to talk to him first, but considering that some people here thought that could be characterized as bullying, I am still mulling it over. Also, it might be better to simply let the first contact be via a lawyer without any call from a SW to give him warning of what is coming.
In regards to my own retirement, that is something I have to start thinking about. I still have resources, but my health is going downhill. The doctor says I am under too much stress, and that is why I need to see about getting more help. Otherwise, worrying about retirement is going to be a moot point.
My reasoning for thinking that adult children not being financially responsible for their parrnts is as follows:
There has been a huge transfer of wealth in this country to the generation of folks born before the Second World War. SOcial Security,Medicare, all of the safety net programs that didnt exist for my grandparents (who were supported in old age by my parents) were there for my parents. And private pensions. And "golden parachutes". My parents, who were middle class and frugal, retired with monies that I can only dream about. My mom is currently paying $12,000 a month in NH costs and has done so for the last 3 years. We just sold her house, so she's got a couple more years before we go down the Medicaid road.
So you, Erwin, it sounds as though your parents had some bad times, made a poor financial gamble in trusti ng Bro the Snake ( and yes, sue the PANTS off him!) and misunderstood the niceties of record keeping, what to pay, etc.
But here's the thing. What about YOUR future? Is your retirement funded?
Are you inpoverishing yourself by keeping dad in your home and paying for everything?
I have no relationship with him anymore, and in all candor, I do not want one. When he is around, he steals. It is that simple. My concern about letting the SW contact him has nothing to do whether or not I think he owes my father support - from my viewpoint, he always has owed that, especially after he took my parents resources.
No, my concern is that - A) It would be nice for someone to tell the parasite he's a parasite and to pay up, but the parasite ain't gonna pay. That's not how he works - he takes, not gives.
B) He has already been trying inveigle himself back into my orbit by trying to invite himself for holidays, etc.
Before she passed away my mother told me that he and his wife were after her to get them named in my will to receive my house, land, etc. Despite caring for Dad for a long time, I still have assets, and even though he doesn't need them, I'm sure he'd like them. So, I don't want him around me at all.
I've been surprised by the attitudes here that he should not be expected to support his parent in old age. In fairness, I suppose that most of you , by extension, believe that I should not have to do so, either. But, considering the amount of cash he took from the family, and his promises to provide them with support in exchange, I am wondering who was supposed to be there for my father at 90 years of age?
(I understand that there is a lot of backstory to my younger brother that I haven't shared here - like the fact that he and his wife turned in an Advanced Directive terminating life support on my mom that no one in my family - even my older brother - who lived with her - had ever heard of. And the only way we found out is because the hospital SW called us to tell us about it. And that's only one thing.)
I also realize that there is a belief out there that the government will provide a safety net. And, as I've said, if Dad could live alone they would pay for his housing. But there are a lot of holes in that supposed net as I am finding out.
I suppose many will think my parents should have done a better job providing for their own old age. But even after losing two pensions, paying for my mother's heart attack, and having my brother renege on his agreement to support them, things did not get really awful enough that we needed to see about assistance until Dad hit 89+... even the SW commented that most people need assistance a lot sooner.
In any event, I do appreciate the responses. They've given me a window into how my brother frames his mindset. Honestly, I never would have considered that I could say my parent's well-being was anyone else's responsibility but mine, and my sibling's. It is an alien way of thought to me. I say that simply to state a fact, not to criticize anyone else.
I will probably go to a lawyer next. See if they can get Dad onto medicaid sooner, or if Dad can sue my brother for breach of contract or under filial responsibility laws in our state. Or possibly both. Another friend suggested this a while back, and I left it alone because I did not want to get into a peeing contest with a skunk. Maybe it's time, though.
Maybe just the threat of a lawsuit from Dad might make brother decide the risk to his business, reputation, and livelihood isn't worth it. Who knows?
I did want to suggest contacting one of the Jewish agencies, such as Jewish Welfare Federation or Jewish Family Serivces, even if you aren't Jewish. They've always had a booth at the Area Agency on Aging expos and provided very helpful information, emphasizing that they provide this kind of assistance regardless of whether "clients" are Jewish.
One good social worker told me years ago that one of the Catholic agencies is similar. I don't recall which one it was though, and my notes are in the massive collection of medical records I have.
Another thought occurred to me - sometimes rural areas have their own types of assistance; I have some vague recollection of reading this somewhere. This might be worth some research time.
But I do agree with you that all elderly should try to be as self-sufficient as possible, and all of us should plan for that. A few years ago I was driving my mother through the downtown section of a nearby town and saw a man in a power chair riding around to do his errands. I said "Look Ma, if you lived here you could do almost everything on your scooter - dr visits, post office, pharmacy, groceries, etc..." She replied "Yes, but then I wouldn't have as much help." Meaning from me and my sisters, who lived in more residential areas. That was exactly my point, obviously. She wouldn't need as much help. She could get around by herself instead of us (mostly me) having to ferry her everywhere. Not a thought on her part to taking up less of our time and resources. Wrong wrong wrong!!!
Does Dad still drive? Does he meet a group of friends when he eats out? If everyone in his group is retired, maybe they could do lunch instead, which tends to be less expensive.
Does Dad get an allowance? Or is that in the future? For some people, money is burning a hole in their pocket and it has to be used.
We are already giving up enough of ourselves so that our parent can continue to live in the lifestyle they were accustom, we shouldn't be giving up our own hard earned money to support that lifestyle, too. We need to keep that money for our own retirement, otherwise this becomes a generational thing of grown children paying for their parents, it never stops.
The Social Worker should not be calling any other siblings. Just because someone gets an excellent salary doesn't mean they have money sitting around.... that person could be heavy in debt, like still paying off college loans for themselves or their children.
My thinking about my own aging is similar to that of Barb, above. I would love to live out in the wilderness, be around nature, but common sense says that at my age it is more beneficial to remain in the area that I reside. My groceries can be delivered to my house... the Urgent Care is just 2 traffic lights away... the hospital only 15 minutes with the rescue squad within 3 miles from two locations... the Senior Center, only 2 miles away. Etc.
As I've written previously, up until this past spring when he almost died, Dad was very good about his finances, but still needed a good bit of support from me.
After his episode in the hospital, Dad spent money like water for about seven months. Restaurants, cabs, constant doctors trips, "friends" (mooches), bill collectors from my mom's debts, you name it. A lot of new people were around him due to his illness, and his need for constant supervision, and some of them, * I think* , fostered bad spending habits. Some of it was also Dad, being told he was going to die by his idiot doctor, and deciding he no longer needed to worry about money.
Either way, I didn't catch on fast enough. But, I was able to rein it in starting about 6-7 weeks ago, but he still has a lot of basic expenses, and still eats almost half his meals out. There is simply no way for me to cook and clean up after every meal for him. I'm swamped.
The SW got the info about my brother and his business from interviewing Dad, although I would have told her if she'd bothered to ask me. It's not my job to protect him from his own decisions. She also found out that younger brother was given a lot of cash by my parents to start his business years ago in exchange for his agreement to look after them in old age - which is why she wanted to contact him, I think.
But I think this is an example of "People unclear of the concept". He has NEVER honored that obligation, so why would he just because she calls him? BTW, $1500 a week would be pocket change for him these days. But again, a moot point, because in his mind, he is not obligated to provide 15 cents...
(BTW, I only found out about that agreement myself right before my mom died, when she apologized for the fact that my brother got their assets to start his business, and I got stuck with the caregiving responsibilities he had promised to take on...)
I'd hoped that the SW would come up with a program or two that might actually provide more than token help. But it seems there is less available than I'd hoped. I am supposed to call her tomorrow, I will have to think about what to tell her.
Perhaps a knowledgeable outsider providing some information could shame an uninvolved sibling into coughing up some help, especially one who has welched on an agreement to take care of the parents. As long as the approach is not "Why aren't you contributing any money?" but is more along the lines of "I've reviewed your parent's situation and the public resources available, and because there's so little available that would genuinely help your parent, I'm reaching out to family members to discuss what they might be able to contribute for the parent's expenses."
Of course, there's no guarantee that the sibling would agree to anything, or that any such agreement would be kept. But I think it would be worth a try, anyway. The social worker likely has more credibility than the involved sibling in the other siblings' eyes. At least, I think my own uninvolved siblings would have responded much better to a social worker than they did to me. They saw me as having an axe to grind, and that gave an excuse to disregard anything I said.
Barring help from the family, I think you should investigate more having your parent move to an area where more services are available. Maybe even sell the house and move with him, to an apartment where somebody else is responsible for the maintenance. That's what I've ended up doing in retirement. Home maintenance costs are too unpredictable - I just don't have room in my budget for them any more.