My father placed property that my cousin left him in his will when he passed back in 2011. The property has been up for sale since 2012 and just sold in the spring of last year. The idea all along by my father was to split the money among the four children. Well, I took $40,000 last spring after the sale and long before my father had a stroke (December) and is looking at long term care. How can this gift be protected from the Medicaid 5 year look back when he spends down and needs to apply? This money was distributed as per the plan when we opted to sell the property back in 2012 and is no way a means of hiding the money. At the time, there was no way to know that this would happen.
Check this website, they actually have attorneys online that may be able to help you with your question. Better them than those of us that think we understand how the look back works. Maybe they will tell you what you want to hear, or ways to fix it.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-can-i-safely-transfer-my-assets-get-medicaid-pay-long-term-care.html
An interesting side note -
well, I think it’s interesting...
A study recently done by The World
Health Organization ranked 195 countries in the health care that is available to their citizens. America ranked 35th. Pretty pathetic for “The Most Powerful County in the World”. At least, that’s my opinion.
If Medicaid qualification were loosened as you would like, we would all be paying much higher taxes to allow that many more people to live in NHs with publicly funded support.
What about the shares for your siblings? What's happened to their (total) $120,000?
I feel your frustration! But you are correct! After a certain age you can not leave or gift a big amount of money to your kids or grandkids just "in case" you might need long term Medicaid because who knows 'what might happen.'
Now on the other hand, if a person has lots of money and assets. That person can hire a lawyer who knows how to hide his/her money and assets to leave to his/her kids and/or grandkids. However, if you're just working class or God forbid went through a hard time in life and just have a little bit of assets such as a house and need Medicaid well the kids or grandkids won't be getting the family home that has been past down for 3 generations--Medicaid will get it.
There is a post here about how Medicaid is a government program that needs very hard rules to protect it and it does...because people that were well to do would gift all their assets to family and let Medicaid pay the bill! But guess what? Even though these rules are in place that doesn't stop them people from doing it...they just have to pay more legal fees to hide their assets! So you have to ask? Are these hard rules really protecting Medicaid program or are they just hurting the everyday person?
I believe that your dad was not being sneaky or trying to get one-over on the government. He did what he thought was right at the time. But to Medicaid, it doesn't matter...it was within the 5 yr look back.
And you have all rights to be upset! No one thought dad would need LTF, but he does...and now you're in what I call "no man's land." Maybe dad won't need Medicaid...a lot can happen in a few yrs
The truth of the matter is, you pay taxes for a government program "Medicaid" and seems how most people don't save enough for the care they will need because the cost just keeps rising; just so your family can pay the cost; if and when you need Medicaid!
Just my 2 cents!!!
Back in the spring last year, your father sold an asset which netted - $40K x 4, then? - $160K. You had no way of knowing that he would be injured in a fall and have a stroke later in the year, and then require long term care. But you say the family has been caring for him for years. Like every other family, you were aware that he did have care needs; making provision for those is only normal; and there is no reason why you should have been less aware than any other family of the possibility that his circumstances would change.
Medicaid isn't going to fine anyone, or prosecute anyone, or even accuse anyone. But they are not going to pay the care fees of someone who has voluntarily given away multiple tens of thousands of dollars in cash within the last twelve months.
What happened to the other three shares? Are those still available to him? If so, perhaps you can come to some sort of long-term arrangement with your siblings about repaying your share to your father's (hypothetical) estate. Essentially what's happened is that you have had a legacy advanced to you but through unforeseen circumstances the legacy (probably) won't materialise after all.
With 20:20 hindsight, of course it's a pity that your father didn't give the property to you four when he inherited it. I expect that was because it seemed simpler to divide cash? Just curious, not that it gets us anywhere, why did it take so long to sell? I don't think you can call an asset that your father has owned for eight years "unexpected." It may have been unexpected in 2011 but there has been plenty of time for decisions about what to do with it.
I can't see any harm in your taking professional advice about what to do next but I'd be very wary of any professional who came up with a clever wheeze to make your $40K vanish off the books. That really could get you into trouble.
ARE you in trouble? What are your siblings saying about your father's care plan and its funding and your $40K?
If Medicaid is used the house will be effected. They will place a lien on it and I am not completely sure, but I would say that you couldn't change the title until the lien was satisfied. At this point you have time to find out what is going to happen and plan. That is a blessing for sure.
I know that this is a freaky scary time, deep breath and one step at a time.
I want to say that I am sorry that you have lost the dad that you know, it is a huge adjustment and it is very sad. This is all really raw, take some time finding an attorney that you as a family feel is the right fit. We interviewed so many attorneys, only the ones that offered free consultations and we finally found one that fit our needs and had a personality that we could work with. It was a huge hassle but so worth it. You can use dads money for this much needed advice and guidance. I know that if I have any questions I can make a phone call or send an email and I will receive accurate information, that is a priceless feeling.
This is a forum of lay people who care for someone. We can't give u a definite answer concerning Medicaid. States share basic rules and then they have some of their own. You really need to find out what your state rules are. I understand your question but its not when the plans were made but when money was distributed.
I feel that Medicaid should be one of the things discussed when planning retirement. Like you said, you can't know that Dad would have a stroke. Most people do not know how Medicaid works. A lot of mis-information out there. You really need to talk to a lawyer versed in Medicaid.
Is there a chance of improvement for Dad? If so, maybe he could transfer to an Assisted Living eventually. Would cut cost of his care.
Hope u can find the answer u want.
Does the 3.5 years of self pay include his house? If not, you can look into selling that to cover self pay until the penalty period ends. Medicaid is going to get paid back as much as they can, they will put a lien on the house and collect when it is sold after his death. They won't make accusations, they will just place a penalty period in place for the money that was gifted to his children. It's really not about intent, it is about actions.
I would honestly not worry at this point, because they are always changing the rules, so who knows what the situation will look like in 3 years.
I dealt with a situation that my dad made 14.00 a month to much to qualify for public assistance. Yet he was thousands of dollars shy of skilled care. I found a board and care home that would let him age in place and he could afford the monthly payment. He didn't plan for his old age or any medical conditions, every penny went to keep his teeny bopper wife happy and when he got sick she left. Ugh!
So your dad is okay for now, worry about later, later.
I am not saying all romances with large age differences are bad. Some are wonderful marriages. Others are not!
I can't imagine a birthday/wedding/graduation gift would count against you if you purchased a "small" item for another person. How would they know that item from the electronics or department store wasn't for you? Giving larger amounts of cash to your kids (or whomever) might be a problem.
So they leave the funds in their name until they die. Then it is distributed after a will is read. It’s sad because some people don’t want to wait until then. They would rather give things away before they die.
All situations are different. Different circumstances and different state laws too. So it’s best to check with someone in your state about your individual situation. You may have nothing to be concerned about and can put your mind at ease.
Don’t get upset with people on the forum. We didn’t make the rule. Just stating how it works. Just how it is.
Sorry that I can’t give you an answer that pleases you more. We all have the responsibility to plan for our senior years as much as we possibly can. Life can be challenging at times.
I suppose if you want to be absolutely sure, you can research for yourself. There is literature that you can read or you can make an appointment with a financial planner or an elder care attorney. Then your mind will be at rest.
Best wishes for you and your family.
Of coarse we can spend our money, yet it our responsibility to plan for our old age, so that we will never have to depend on a government program.
I suggest that you read up on Medicaid there is tons of information out there on the net.
I would visit your attorney for a better understanding of Medicaid. I believe that this is a fight that you will not win.
The property, owned by your father was sold in 2012.
He gave you $40,000 of that. That was a gift to you.
You can return the $40,000
Or
it will delay the process.
If the property sold for "only" $40,000 that is all that you have to be concerned about. If it sold for more either the rest should be returned as well or the rest is also added to the total to further delay the process.
Might be a time to consult an Elder Care Attorney. It is possible that if the money is placed in an irrevocable trust that might change the delay or the process.