Hospital forcing me to pick up mom with dementia.

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Hospital forcing me to pick up mom with dementia.

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I'm not sure what contacting a news outlet would do. I fear that many viewers/readers would expect you to take her back home. Those of us in the know, however, advise otherwise!

There was an article about how a family fixed up their basement so that the in-laws/parents could live there. The comments were all about how great that family was to take care of their elders, how it's a shame that more people don't do that, etc. I was appalled!

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If OP has proof (videos) or mom threatening to attack minor children...I think there would be far less sympathy for an elder who could/would not live in a decent civilized manner with family. I think most people would put kids first and expect parents to do so too.

(6)

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Tough situation. So sorry, for all of you.

Can your attorney intervene? Talk to the facility that is threatening to send her home?

Can you call a local nursing home and have her go there? If she has money, it will go to them, then she will have to go on gov't aid. Even if she goes in for "respite care" so that you can have some time to figure out what the heck to do long term. Do not take her back home, unless she is going to have lots of aids and maybe new meds to help her better than before she went for eval.

Her needs are VERY high and if you are done, then you're done and you have EVERY right to be.

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It is all about money or lack thereof.

(1)

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A hospital is not a nursing home . Check into assisted living , it will be better for each of you .

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Benny they don't have money for assisted living.

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My mother was in the hospital yesterday for her once a week panic attacks and I spoke to the social worker at the hospital. I told her everything my mothers primary doctor said to say. It’s an insafe discharge due to hoarding. Also told her FAILURE TO THRIVE because she has lost a lot of weight. She only weighs 106. I told them I was going to work. They were discharging her to her house by herself!!! I said then call a cab. It is an unsafe discharge. The hospital calls my cell phone and says are you going to let your 95 year old mother take a cab all alone? I screamed back are you going to do an unsafe discharge and failure to thrive home alone with nobody there????

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Elaine,

I am so sorry to hear this! I am sorry to say this. I don't like being disrespectful but those people are idiots! My God, I would have been furious with that phone call accusing you of neglect! Yeah, like they care about your mom. They clearly don't care. So ridiculous! So much freakin red tape that doesn't make any sense at all!

People don't care. It infuriates me. I'm in a funk from watching the news earlier. First a woman was killed by a float at one of our parades tonight. After that a report came on about a 15 year old honor student that was riding the bus to school with his brother. The kid had epilepsy. He had a seizure on the bus and no one helped him!

The bus driver was told by the kids on the bus that he needed help and he just ignored him. The kid died at Children's Hospital. Such a sad story. I started to cry listening to his dad speak.

Bus drivers are supposed to have basic training in emergencies. They are transporting kids. They should be responsible people. The bus company is claiming the driver was not at fault. The parents said it was all caught on camera. Our buses have cameras on the bus. They are making their son's story public so another child won't die like their son did.

They are placing pressure on the bus company to force them to be responsible while transporting children. The kid's brother begged the bus driver to help. He neglected that kid. By the time he pulled over and the kid was transported to Children's Hospital he was brain dead. The brother asked for help to follow instructions what should be done quickly when seizures happen. The bus driver would not even look at the instructions.

The same with your mom. You have told them your mom should not be alone! They are heartless! Makes me crazy. I don't care if it's the law or not to be able to legally discharge her.

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APS won't do anything if they are in the hospital. APS also won't do anything if the person is COMPETENT. Needhelpwithmom, that is terrible about the little boy that died and the bus driver didn't do anything to help him. I would have been crying over the story too!! That is awful!!! After I talked to the case manager by myself, I talked to my Mother and the case manager. Then the doctor even came in and said she really needs to go to assisted living. They said they could send her to rehab and then assisted living but that she had to agree to it. When they asked her she said NO!!! The best part was when I was driving home my Mother called my husband to come pick her up. Now he is a very layed back person. I have been married 35 years and he has NEVER yelled at my Mother EVER!! But last night he did yell at her and told her she needed to go to assisted living, the house is way too big for you to take care of, you can't take care of yourself, you are in and out of the hospital every week, we are all going crazy from it!!! You need to go to assisted living!!! When she started in saying she needed to sell the piano first, my husband hung up and DID NOT pick her up.

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This is the way to go! Good for your husband. United stand.

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HOSPITALS get paid by what is called DRG's, or diagnosis related groups. They get a fixed amount, for example, for a chest pain diagnosis. Insurance further dictates how many days they can stay. Since hospitals are neither hotels nor nursing homes..it is possible they can do that. If they are using the sheriff's department it is probably legal. BUT I'M NOT LAWYER so what do I know. I'm just trying to sort this through using common sense.

You can ask the doctor to discharge her to rehab if she has been in the hospital for 4 days and on Medicare. This will allow up to 100 days. Medicaid laws are complex and varies from each state, and there is a 5 year look-back law, which would require an eldercare attorney's services to sort out. Overall, the nursing home will absorb all assets and if you all been spending your mom's money over the last 5 years that will come as a penalty. Something like they will allow nursing home, but the patient has to pay for it out-of-pocket until the penalty (what you all accessed of her money not related to her care or her home) is spent for her nursing home care. Ask a social worker about nursing home placement and financial arrangements.

Assisted living arrangements are only possible if she is still self caring but just needs some overseeing. They are limited what they can do.

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I don't understand this. Hospitals used to be caring places where you could go and feel safe and they would take care of you. Now they kick you out on the street. Very sad. I would find a place for her, a nice place where she could be safe and feel wanted. Good luck.

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Yes. Watch New Amsterdam Tuesday nights on NBC. You will appreciate it...

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If I am not mistaken, you can appeal that with Medicare. If you are not able or comfortable with her discharge, you can call with an appeal.

I did that for my mom. But you have to do it before she leaves they premises.

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Hi tierdmomma,
I have just been through this with my brother. You can read my story at (Mzsz1977) and all the helpful comments caring people shared with me. We have been caring for my bother for 4 years after my mom died unexpectedly. With out this blog I don't think we would have made it to this point. He is finally in a LTCF as of yesterday and we did not have to pick him up.! It has taken about 4 weeks and 3 different hospitals but the advice we received worked. Good luck and know you are not alone. If you cant find my post let me know. I think it's under POA questions.
Take care! Mzsz1977

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Searching for Mzsz1977 didn't work, but by clicking Mzsz1977 above this post, clicking "Following" and then clicking on "I'm Medical and financial POA of my brother. He needs 24/7 SNF. He is also a convicted sex offender, so hospital can't find placement. Advice?" will get you to the thread.

Quicker, now that I have the topic is to select the Search icon at the top of the page and copy/paste "I'm Medical and financial POA of my brother. He needs 24/7 SNF. He is also a convicted sex offender, so hospital can't find placement. Advice?" will get you to the link for that thread.

If nothing else, it is somewhat of a feel good thread, as things worked out for this person!

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My brother needed long term care after his hospital stay and could not return home. We had to find a nursing home for him. Although the hospital was pressuring us to do so, they could not, and did not, release him until we found a satisfactory nursing home. It took a couple of weeks, but he remained at the hospital, at no extra charge, until he was settled into the nursing home.

The hospital cannot keep your Mom after she is physically well, even with dementia. Hospitals are for physical illnesses, not long-term care. Find your Mom a nursing home. You will have to pay with whatever savings she has. If she does not have savings, her social security money will have to be transferred to the nursing home. In addition, she will go on Medicaid. Don’t despair. This is done all the time. Just try to find your Mom a nice nursing home close to you.

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The hospital SW and case managers are the ones who actively work to find a SNF for you.

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This is truly a perfect example of accounting for the money that your parents have. You say that she makes too much money to qualify for Medicaid. That means to me that you possibly live in her home? The home needs to be sold so that she can have money to pay for a nursing home. If that is not the case,and she is considered as having too much money, then you need to find a nursing home within the budget. It might not be a fancy place but you can check in every day. You can still give her Quality of Life by giving her your company and attention. Stop spending your mother's money and utilize it for 24 hour care. You cared for her for many years it is time to let go. If you are leaning on her home or her money to help your own lifestyle than this should end and you need to become self-sufficient. I am not trying to be mean I am trying to bring a dose of reality to the situation. There are many people who live in their parents homes and utilize their parents money, in a fraudulent way. Unfortunately that is how I Society can be. Search within yourself, and budget out whatever money your mother has , to be utilized for her end-of-life care.

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You need to read her responses (and all the responses here) before you post. Mother lives in daughter's home. Everything you wrote has nothing to do with this situation. I honestly don't know why you wrote that or would write something like that without informing yourself first.

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How long was your mom in the hospital and was she admitted for 3 consecutive days or under observation? She must be admitted to qualify for a SNF.

Secondly,If you haven't done so already speak to either the case manager or social worker regarding your concerns for your mom's care and safety.Be very descriptive.Don't just say she can't come back here.Relay your concerns.

Thirdly,
If your mom has been given a discharge date a notice should have been given to her or you.
If one hasn't ask for it. There is information on the notice regarding appealing her discharge.

Make sure you appeal prior to the discharge date.Any and all medical documents you can provide regarding her dementia will be an asset.Have her PC write a letter stating how imperative it is that your mom be placed in a memory care facility and his finding.There is no guarantee that you'll win but won't know if you don't try.

I had to file several appeals when my mom was rehabbing after a stroke at a SNF and I won all 3.

Make sure you retain the case and fax number.All documents faxed over must include the case number and your mom's name.
Goodluck

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What’s a SNF?

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A hospital can of course release her. So can a nursing home. My mom with dementia was in rehab in a nursing home after a hospitalization and when we said she can't come home, they threatened the same eviction. It turned out okay, because I got her on Medicaid and had aides in her home 8 hours a day (my dad was still there). Because of the 5 year Medicaid nursing home financial lookback, it would have cost a ton of money due to many problems creating penalties, so we went with the Medicaid aides at home which is only a 3 month lookback, if I remember correctly. You should find a nursing home for her and then spend down her money until Medicaid can kick in (get the application for Medicaid in after talking to a lawyer about her finances, and have all her financial documents ready for him from the past 5 years - that means every page of every statement month by month). And read this for more info on nursing home eviction, just in case: https://www.aarp.org/caregiving/financial-legal/info-2018/nursing-home-evictions-fd.html

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I could be wrong, but in reading older posts, the OP said a Miller Trust was not an option in her state and her mom had too much income to qualify for her state's Medicaid, but too little to pay for care. Don't mean to be flippant, but it sounds like we need to plan carefully what state we age in.

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Sounds like you may need to hire an elder attorney. Work on liquidating all of her financial assets to apply for Medicaid. It will take a long time but it can be done. I am so very sorry.

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There are NO assets and unless the EC attorney OP is going to see can work some magic, her mom's income (1400/m) is over the state Medicaid income limit. She also doesn't have a "long time" to work this out.

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Yes. It is illegal to "hospital dump", which is what this seems like. You need to find placement in an assisted living or nursing home.

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What if she can't find placement in a NH? What then? She can't let this go on at home, it is dangerous for both her family and mother. Unsafe. The sad thing is, it is all too often next to impossible for some people to find NH placement, especially those with moderate income. and then there is little help from anyone else. Many people stuck in situations where there is nowhere to turn.

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Check this out.

https://elder.findlaw.com/elder-abuse/elder-abandonment.html

Elder abandonment is generally defined as the purposeful and permanent desertion of an elderly person. The victim may be left at a hospital, a nursing home, or in a public location. Perhaps the abandoning person feels overburdened or believes he or she lacks the resources to care for the victim.

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Ok, the link defines somewhat, but doesn't really provide any insight on what one can do, other than contact EC atty. Any similar links for child abuse/endangerment? The woman is violent to family members, including minor children.... She also didn't "dump" her mother there, she was getting evaluated. Perhaps refusing to have her discharged back to the home would fall under this "abandonment", but there should be some compassion for the situation and for the welfare of the family and children.

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This thread is degrading very quickly by trolls who have not bothered to read the previous responses. Tiredmomma, I'm sorry you're going through this, and again I hope you follow through with the constructive advice many had given yesterday. Stick to your guns, make sure you follow through with APS and the attorney and keep Mom out of your home.

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The responses don't come up in the order in which they were posted so sometimes the reader is responding without all the posts being read.

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i guess your mom is on the violent side well i know what will help calm her down would be to get melatonin so should get the 10 mgs gummy kind good & you can tell her that they are vitamin's it is a natural sleep gummy kind google it . my mom had a script for it was used .. there are some that do not think it is safe but it is it is ideal to give it to her a hour before she gets mean my mom that would be 1pm you may have to ask the hospital to give them to her .. so give them to her at home @ a hour before she gets mean ..well good luck....

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NO! 10mgs of melatonin is waaay too much to give without a doctor's intervention or overseeing. I can appreciate your concern, but the advice is not relevant for this thread.

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I was under the impression, that if you told the hospital that you want her to go to longterm care facility, that the social worker at the hospital would do the paperwork for that if you ask them. And that she could stay there until they fund the first available bed in a nursing facility. But you would have had to ask in the beginning of her admission at the hospital

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Yes, competent good hospitals will help find proper placement. That is why they have social work departments. But you don't have to ask for it at the beginning, it can be done after evaluation by the professionals.

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You need to speak with your mom social worker at the hospital and tell them it would be a unsafe discharge for her to come back to your house. Let them know she can not stay with you. Do you have P.O.A or Conservatship over her? I went through the same thing with my father but I was able to get him in a nice nursing home from the hospital because I refused to take him home from the hospital.

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In my state, that is not allowed. The hospital must provide a safe discharge plan. Have you spoken with the social worker as well as the attending physician? Is she eligible for any skilled nursing time under Medicare?(physical therapy, wound care,etc.). If she has some savings and / or a house, she may be able to be admitted to a skilled nursing facility with private funds. Yes, she would have to spend down savings until she is Medicaid eligible and the house would need to be sold. Have you contacted any facilities on your own? At the very least, a physical therapy evaluation needs to be performed.

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"...she would have to spend down savings until she is Medicaid eligible and the house would need to be sold. Have you contacted any facilities on your own?"

No savings. No house to sell (never had one.) No assets.

OP has already posted mom's income is 1400/m, MC is 4000/m, Medicaid limit for their state is LESS than mom's income.

OP would LOVE to have mom move to a facility, but mom can't afford it, is over the Medicaid limit and CAN'T take her back into the home due to safety issues.

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She will have to do the "spend down" (using her own assets/money to pay for her own care) before Medicaid will take her on. After spending down, if she still has too much coming in monthly from a pension or something, you will have to get a Millers Trust. Work with a social worker at the hospital to help you get her placed somewhere. Use her money to get an appointment with an elder lawyer. They can explain everything and help you. It's a lot to deal with if you're unfamiliar with it. But if you have been caring for your mom for 14 years, this isn't a situation that came up overnight. There is work involved to get your mom where she needs to be. A previous poster suggested that you might be in your moms home...if that is the case, you've got bigger issues because her home is an asset that will need to be sold to pay for her care.

Can you give us more detail?

Good Luck.

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for Pete's sake, please read through this thread and Tiredmomma's responses. Mother is in Daughter's home. Mother would qualify for LTC Medicaid if she's medically needy. Physician has already recommended LTC.

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No they cannot! My lawyer said the hospital will assign an social worker

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Sounds like in OP's case, the social worker/discharge planner has to be pressured to do his/her job. Not just take the easy way of saying "your problem, not mine."

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The hospital here in Alabama did this VERY same thing to me in November. I told them she could not come back here, and they said either I come get her or they were going to call the police and dhr. They sent my mom home to me in a yellow cab! No joke. I don't know if it's legal, but they did it.

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Shameful behavior of them. So the sheriff comes. What if nobody is home? You think the sheriff's don't have better things to be doing than babysitting people, with dementia no less? Sounds to me like they want an empty bed to refill. When did she last apply for medicaid? Income guidelines change. I'd be taking the family and going on vacation ASAP until it is resolved. As in don't tell anyone and get to even a local hotel. Anything...just don't be anywhere they can find you from info you have provided. But I know in your heart you care, and if she has a key to the house and they help her in, gosh I don't know who would be held accountable. Call the lawyer...

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We ran into the same thing with both of my parents last year. We were advised by the social worker at the hospital to tell them upon discharge that he/she is not safe. Tell everyone that talks to you about her discharge that she is not safe. We were told to say it 100 times if we had to and then the hospital would not be able to release her. At that point the social worker will contact nursing homes or other places qualified to give her the care she needs. It worked for us for both of my parents. Good luck to you!!

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Simple answer is YES.

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Not everything is so simple, and in this case, that discharge would be to a toxic, unsafe environment. Probably unethical.

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The hospital can and will release your mother as soon as her being hospitalized is no longer "justified" for medical rrasons. If you can no longer manage her at home, you need to find a long term care facility for her.

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She's had no success finding a long term facility. What if Tiredmomma got sick herself or injured or incapacitated? Would hospital still send demented Mom home with no one there? What would they do then? Decent medical facilities that follow ethical guidelines ensure discharges that are safe. Tiredmomma is no longer able to provide safe care. She no longer has the capacity to care for Mom. The social work department must do their job and assist people in need like this.

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Have you not already gotten hooked up with an Attorney that specializes in Senior issues. It sounds like you did not protect her assets from being taken by the facilities. FIRST FIND AN ATTORNEY THAT SPECIALIZES in SENIOR ISSUES.

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Mom's assets should be used for her care - not protected at the taxpayer's expense.

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Melotonin is NOT harmful. If you take too much you might get a bad headache.
AND Melotonin is NOT a solution to this persons problem

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Hospital forcing me to pick up mom with dementia.

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